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Santander nightmare
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Ivor_Kemp
Posts: 4 Newbie
My father died on 24th June 2014 and my mother survived him. They held both a Joint Santander Cheque Account and Interest Saver Account.
I wanted to change the names of each Joint Account into Single Accounts bearing only my mother’s name.
My mother is in a Nursing Home, is totally immobile, and cannot leave the Home.
After my father’s death I contacted Santander’s Bereavement Department by telephone as well as downloading their Bereavement Guide which is available from their website.
They made an appointment for me with the Broadstone, Dorset branch (9.30 am 21/06/14) in order to change the accounts as above.
I checked very thoroughly with their Bereavement Department on the telephone and their Guide as to what I needed to take with me to this appointment and ensured that my mother would be able to operate the account online after the changes were made. I was categorically told that any pin numbers and customer numbers would remain the same and the only thing that would be changed would be the name on the account.
At the Branch appointment I was immediately told I could not make the name change without Probate! I had a copy of the Will (naming me as a Trustee) and the original Death Certificate as well as correct forms of my identification – all as specified by the Bereavement Department. However, the Bank Representative told me that these did not conform with her instructions (or on a blank form that she had on her desk). She left me in the meeting room for ten minutes while she consulted with her Manager. She returned and told me that her Manager had agreed with her and there was nothing they could do. I suggested she called the Bereavement Department herself and seek clarification. She did so and received the same information as me and said we could now proceed stating “well we learn something every day”!
She checked my documents and said she would alter the account as required. I double checked with her that no security information for Online Banking would either be altered or deleted and stressed the importance of this given my mother’s condition and she assured me that the only change would be to the account name. I told her my mother wanted to cancel some Standing Orders and she told me I could do this myself when I got home.
An hour later my mother and I attempted to log in into the account as usual on a Laptop on her bed! We received a message that access was blocked and that we should contact Santander.
I telephoned the Bank Representative I had just seen, who didn’t understand why this should be happening. She said she would get someone to call me from the Branch.
I received a call from the Broadstone Branch ‘explaining’ that, because the online security pin and customer number were registered in my father’s name, they had been deleted. I asked why this had not been explained to me before and was told it was because they didn’t know at the time! It was suggested that my
mother came into the branch to secure new security codes which I reiterated was impossible. I was then asked whether I had my mother’s Cash Point card and pin number. When I said I had, it was suggested I could use that to continue banking! I told the representative that I was sure this was not legal and would not conform to Santander’s Banking Agreement. I did not receive a reply!
I was then told there was nothing I could do without Lasting Power of Attorney (Financial) over my mother’s affairs. This was the first time LPOA had ever been mentioned. I do not have this! The Office of the Public Guardian tell me this will take a minimum of 14 weeks to obtain and then Santander will require a further 10 days once they have received the Registered document.
I telephoned the Bereavement Department, who did understand my frustration at a very stressful time, and made further suggestions that my mother could compose a signed letter to Santander asking for these changes. Once again I explained my mother’s condition and told them that this was not possible. I suggested that, given they had the registered address of my parents, which I oversee and collect post from, and that I had proved (to their requirements) my identity as a Trustee of both my father’s and mother’s Will, that Santander either send new numbers to their registered home address or even send something there for my mother to sign and return. None of this was deemed possible.
I have registered a verbal complaint with Santander and a representative promised to call me the next day. No phone call was made. I telephoned Complaints again this morning who, while having notes on the issues, told me that my complaint had been registered with the wrong department, but this had now been altered and I would receive a courtesy call this afternoon. He apologised. No courtesy call was made.
Summary
My mother does not have any feasible access to her Bank Account despite being assured that she would have.
There are payments connected with my father’s death that need to be paid which we are unable to make.
We are unable to check that transactions that should now have been cancelled as a result of my father’s death have been.
There are Standing Orders (as discussed with Santander Branch) that my mother wants cancelled that we are now unable to affect.
I have continually been misinformed by Santander staff many of whom do not seem to understand their own procedures.
All my reasonable suggestions to rectify this situation have been rejected by Santander.
I have been subject to considerable stress at the time of losing my father. I have to repeat again and again the circumstances of my mother which hurts me each time.
I have conversations with some Santander staff that suggest that either they do not understand Bereavement or they do not care!
I wanted to change the names of each Joint Account into Single Accounts bearing only my mother’s name.
My mother is in a Nursing Home, is totally immobile, and cannot leave the Home.
After my father’s death I contacted Santander’s Bereavement Department by telephone as well as downloading their Bereavement Guide which is available from their website.
They made an appointment for me with the Broadstone, Dorset branch (9.30 am 21/06/14) in order to change the accounts as above.
I checked very thoroughly with their Bereavement Department on the telephone and their Guide as to what I needed to take with me to this appointment and ensured that my mother would be able to operate the account online after the changes were made. I was categorically told that any pin numbers and customer numbers would remain the same and the only thing that would be changed would be the name on the account.
At the Branch appointment I was immediately told I could not make the name change without Probate! I had a copy of the Will (naming me as a Trustee) and the original Death Certificate as well as correct forms of my identification – all as specified by the Bereavement Department. However, the Bank Representative told me that these did not conform with her instructions (or on a blank form that she had on her desk). She left me in the meeting room for ten minutes while she consulted with her Manager. She returned and told me that her Manager had agreed with her and there was nothing they could do. I suggested she called the Bereavement Department herself and seek clarification. She did so and received the same information as me and said we could now proceed stating “well we learn something every day”!
She checked my documents and said she would alter the account as required. I double checked with her that no security information for Online Banking would either be altered or deleted and stressed the importance of this given my mother’s condition and she assured me that the only change would be to the account name. I told her my mother wanted to cancel some Standing Orders and she told me I could do this myself when I got home.
An hour later my mother and I attempted to log in into the account as usual on a Laptop on her bed! We received a message that access was blocked and that we should contact Santander.
I telephoned the Bank Representative I had just seen, who didn’t understand why this should be happening. She said she would get someone to call me from the Branch.
I received a call from the Broadstone Branch ‘explaining’ that, because the online security pin and customer number were registered in my father’s name, they had been deleted. I asked why this had not been explained to me before and was told it was because they didn’t know at the time! It was suggested that my
mother came into the branch to secure new security codes which I reiterated was impossible. I was then asked whether I had my mother’s Cash Point card and pin number. When I said I had, it was suggested I could use that to continue banking! I told the representative that I was sure this was not legal and would not conform to Santander’s Banking Agreement. I did not receive a reply!
I was then told there was nothing I could do without Lasting Power of Attorney (Financial) over my mother’s affairs. This was the first time LPOA had ever been mentioned. I do not have this! The Office of the Public Guardian tell me this will take a minimum of 14 weeks to obtain and then Santander will require a further 10 days once they have received the Registered document.
I telephoned the Bereavement Department, who did understand my frustration at a very stressful time, and made further suggestions that my mother could compose a signed letter to Santander asking for these changes. Once again I explained my mother’s condition and told them that this was not possible. I suggested that, given they had the registered address of my parents, which I oversee and collect post from, and that I had proved (to their requirements) my identity as a Trustee of both my father’s and mother’s Will, that Santander either send new numbers to their registered home address or even send something there for my mother to sign and return. None of this was deemed possible.
I have registered a verbal complaint with Santander and a representative promised to call me the next day. No phone call was made. I telephoned Complaints again this morning who, while having notes on the issues, told me that my complaint had been registered with the wrong department, but this had now been altered and I would receive a courtesy call this afternoon. He apologised. No courtesy call was made.
Summary
My mother does not have any feasible access to her Bank Account despite being assured that she would have.
There are payments connected with my father’s death that need to be paid which we are unable to make.
We are unable to check that transactions that should now have been cancelled as a result of my father’s death have been.
There are Standing Orders (as discussed with Santander Branch) that my mother wants cancelled that we are now unable to affect.
I have continually been misinformed by Santander staff many of whom do not seem to understand their own procedures.
All my reasonable suggestions to rectify this situation have been rejected by Santander.
I have been subject to considerable stress at the time of losing my father. I have to repeat again and again the circumstances of my mother which hurts me each time.
I have conversations with some Santander staff that suggest that either they do not understand Bereavement or they do not care!
0
Comments
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if your mother is of sound mind a standard POA should do for now.0
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a joint account should have separate online access not shared0
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check the setting up new on line access, might take a week or two but that could be qucker than other options.0
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Write by letter and send by post a complaints letter reiterating what you have posted but making it more succinct. Basically the complaint should be about the misinformation between bereavement and branch and the fact you would not be told that pin numbers etc would be 'deleted'.
By complaining at the best the bank will take on board the 'lesson learnt'. At the least it will figure in number of complaints received which is monitored by Financial Ombudsman. You (or your mum rather) will get compensation. (I have earnt (lol) over £300 this year by complaining)
I am a widow and was not with Santander at the time but with HSBC. It was different as I was the widow. I can sort of see the bank's perspective in that you were acting on behalf of your mother without POA. Not sure if executor gives you that right with joint accounts. Probably not.
Your complaint should focus on the misinformation and the stress it caused your mother.0 -
Re the standing orders -I suggest you get your mother do do a letter stating which ones she wants to cancel.
With the other things that need to be cancelled- you need to do a letter as executor to cancel them. To be safe I'd get your mother to sign as well.
Then write a letter detailing your complaint as already suggested.0 -
just reread you asked about that, just do the on-line request.
the account may no be marked/flagged but if not it might just come.0 -
The legal problem is that as a third party you have no legal right to do any of what you want to without a power of attorney. This is different from the POA when a person is lacks capacity to act. You can, with your mother's consent, get a solicitor to visit her and get a POA signed so you can do what you need to do.My father died on 24th June 2014 and my mother survived him. They held both a Joint Santander Cheque Account and Interest Saver Account.
I wanted to change the names of each Joint Account into Single Accounts bearing only my mother’s name.
My mother is in a Nursing Home, is totally immobile, and cannot leave the Home.
After my father’s death I contacted Santander’s Bereavement Department by telephone as well as downloading their Bereavement Guide which is available from their website.
They made an appointment for me with the Broadstone, Dorset branch (9.30 am 21/06/14) in order to change the accounts as above.
I checked very thoroughly with their Bereavement Department on the telephone and their Guide as to what I needed to take with me to this appointment and ensured that my mother would be able to operate the account online after the changes were made. I was categorically told that any pin numbers and customer numbers would remain the same and the only thing that would be changed would be the name on the account.
At the Branch appointment I was immediately told I could not make the name change without Probate! I had a copy of the Will (naming me as a Trustee) and the original Death Certificate as well as correct forms of my identification – all as specified by the Bereavement Department. However, the Bank Representative told me that these did not conform with her instructions (or on a blank form that she had on her desk). She left me in the meeting room for ten minutes while she consulted with her Manager. She returned and told me that her Manager had agreed with her and there was nothing they could do. I suggested she called the Bereavement Department herself and seek clarification. She did so and received the same information as me and said we could now proceed stating “well we learn something every day”!
She checked my documents and said she would alter the account as required. I double checked with her that no security information for Online Banking would either be altered or deleted and stressed the importance of this given my mother’s condition and she assured me that the only change would be to the account name. I told her my mother wanted to cancel some Standing Orders and she told me I could do this myself when I got home.
An hour later my mother and I attempted to log in into the account as usual on a Laptop on her bed! We received a message that access was blocked and that we should contact Santander.
I telephoned the Bank Representative I had just seen, who didn’t understand why this should be happening. She said she would get someone to call me from the Branch.
I received a call from the Broadstone Branch ‘explaining’ that, because the online security pin and customer number were registered in my father’s name, they had been deleted. I asked why this had not been explained to me before and was told it was because they didn’t know at the time! It was suggested that my
mother came into the branch to secure new security codes which I reiterated was impossible. I was then asked whether I had my mother’s Cash Point card and pin number. When I said I had, it was suggested I could use that to continue banking! I told the representative that I was sure this was not legal and would not conform to Santander’s Banking Agreement. I did not receive a reply!
I was then told there was nothing I could do without Lasting Power of Attorney (Financial) over my mother’s affairs. This was the first time LPOA had ever been mentioned. I do not have this! The Office of the Public Guardian tell me this will take a minimum of 14 weeks to obtain and then Santander will require a further 10 days once they have received the Registered document.
I telephoned the Bereavement Department, who did understand my frustration at a very stressful time, and made further suggestions that my mother could compose a signed letter to Santander asking for these changes. Once again I explained my mother’s condition and told them that this was not possible. I suggested that, given they had the registered address of my parents, which I oversee and collect post from, and that I had proved (to their requirements) my identity as a Trustee of both my father’s and mother’s Will, that Santander either send new numbers to their registered home address or even send something there for my mother to sign and return. None of this was deemed possible.
I have registered a verbal complaint with Santander and a representative promised to call me the next day. No phone call was made. I telephoned Complaints again this morning who, while having notes on the issues, told me that my complaint had been registered with the wrong department, but this had now been altered and I would receive a courtesy call this afternoon. He apologised. No courtesy call was made.
Summary
My mother does not have any feasible access to her Bank Account despite being assured that she would have.
There are payments connected with my father’s death that need to be paid which we are unable to make.
We are unable to check that transactions that should now have been cancelled as a result of my father’s death have been.
There are Standing Orders (as discussed with Santander Branch) that my mother wants cancelled that we are now unable to affect.
I have continually been misinformed by Santander staff many of whom do not seem to understand their own procedures.
All my reasonable suggestions to rectify this situation have been rejected by Santander.
I have been subject to considerable stress at the time of losing my father. I have to repeat again and again the circumstances of my mother which hurts me each time.
I have conversations with some Santander staff that suggest that either they do not understand Bereavement or they do not care!0 -
The legal problem is that as a third party you have no legal right to do any of what you want to without a power of attorney. This is different from the POA when a person is lacks capacity to act. You can, with your mother's consent, get a solicitor to visit her and get a POA signed so you can do what you need to do.
I agree, OP is acting outside of his legal authority.
OP, I am NOT suggesting that YOU are behaving improperly, but there many examples of manipulative relatives who claim they are acting with the best of intentions but are secretly syphoning off an elderly person's wealth. Banks are not perfect and can give wrong information (and should be criticised for doing it). But you need to appreciate that these hurdles exist for a reason.
It may be that at first they were content but that something you said raised a concern?
You said:I telephoned the Bereavement Department, who did understand my frustration at a very stressful time, and made further suggestions that my mother could compose a signed letter to Santander asking for these changes. Once again I explained my mother’s condition and told them that this was not possible. I suggested that, given they had the registered address of my parents, which I oversee and collect post from, and that I had proved (to their requirements) my identity as a Trustee of both my father’s and mother’s Will, that Santander either send new numbers to their registered home address or even send something there for my mother to sign and return. None of this was deemed possible.
The above suggests that not only is your mother incapable of going to the branch but that she is unable to sign a document giving you authority to do something (let alone a formal POA or LPOA) which means you might need a professional witness in any case to explain why. Also claiming to be the trustee of your mother's will may also raise concerns since her Will has no effect until she dies. References to you sitting there with her and a laptop could also be misconstrued.
In the circumstances I can see Santander's position that you need to convince them that your mother has mental capacity and can give you the authority to act for her.
I do not know if Santander still do this, but a few years ago they had a form that enabled my mother to "register" me as authorised to operate her account.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
Whilst there is a crossover here between your role as executor for your father's estate and your natural desire to help your mother, Santander has actually been more helpful to you than they should have been - they should not be discussing your mother's financial affairs nor you operating her accounts without proof of an official power of attorney.
This link gives you more information:
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/overview0 -
As said allready the Mother should have her own independant on-line access
https://apply.santander.co.uk/OnlineAppsWeb/ola.htm?_flowId=obr&refId=OLBLogOn
Not having this has caused the problem.
Don't she why, if she is capable*, this cannot be done now filling in the on-line form
(Never had to visit a branch for any of my banking setup)
* capable in that she is able to use the laptop or instruct someone and sign any forms that will come through the post.0
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