Debt amount should be adjusted?

TickersPlaysPop

Hi all

Due to NPower errors when we asked them to change the DD sort code and account a debt built up due to failed DD payments. Over that 6 mths nightmare I made occasional payments over the phone, so the final 'debt' was £607.

We received compensation for the errors that NPower made, and they set up a payment plan that was interest free at ~£40/mth.

The 'debt' of £607 was based on mthly DD amounts of ~£160/mth, that £160 DD was based on usage between Aug2012 and Apr 2013. I.e. NOT a full year. It turns out that after Apr2013 we did not use the projected amount by a long way! Our latest bill based on proper almost mthly customer meter readings sent to NPower via website, is £100/mth.

So..... My point is..... That £607 'debt' should be reviewed in light of what we ACTUALLY used?

When NPower sets up 'payment plans' the 'debt' is not considered at the DD review point along with all the other factors such as actual usage, total DD payments.

The discrepancy is worth about £200 to me which is a lot of money when you have just had your first baby. I need the debt adjusted, so I spent 1hr on the phone to NPower and was not convinced the call centre person understood my point.

Nada666

I don't think you have explained the situation here, either. I take it you feel you should only pay £140 per month whereas you are paying £340 per month. Or is it £160 which either does or does not include the £40.

The debt plan should not be reviewed - you were offered fifteen months to pay it off - if it is reviewed by default you will be given only six or at most twelve months. The revised base monthly payment should have covered any money you gained. Plus, don't forget, after the first six months if it is over winter then there is no summer build up - the following summer payments are for next winter not that last winter. That extra money for the first winter has to be caught up at some time.

keith1950

We received compensation for the errors that NPower made, and they set up a payment plan that was interest free at ~£40/mth.

So..... My point is..... That £607 'debt' should be reviewed in light of what we ACTUALLY used?

Surely you agreed to pay back the £607 at £40/month and it doesn't matter whatever else happens on the account you still have to continue that agreement. I could agree with you logic if this was just an account balance but in this case you set up a payment plan so that plan should run until it has collected £607. Also remember that this plan is ,as you say yourself , " interest free "

Nada666

What is your current direct debit? A reasonable amount (from what you say) would be £190 per month. (£100 annual usage, and £50 to pay back the first winter excess over six months, and £40 per month over 15 months).

TickersPlaysPop

Thank you to the 2 people that replied....

I am posting here to help decide whether not not to take this to the ombudsman, I would prefer to make my dealing on this matter with NPower a quick/painless exercise avoiding the ombudsman. Also this is NPower's last chance to redeem themselves before I make a decision to leave them .... a decision which will be based not on who is the cheapest supplier.

At the time, and now I have the money to pay the £607 'debt', which is not a debt in my opinion, it was a sum of money based on a mthly usage payment decided by NPower, which was a projection of usage based on less than a year of data across a winter of higher than average usage for me.

The interest free nature of the 'debt' payment plan and the long term was a good will gesture from NPower based on the absolute nightmare for 6 mths where their DD system errors created the 'debt' due to my regular payments returning back to my bank account. The nightmare involved many costly stressful and time consuming phone calls, and also lost benefit of the energy DD not coming from my Santander 123 account worth £3.20/mth for 6 mths. I also received £25 compensation.

I am not a trouble maker, or state/system sponger, or a debt junkie or bankrupt. My feeling on this matter is aligned with my very strong sense of fairness and limitless energy (pls excuse the pun!) to see things through where I see there is an unjust situation.

The data I posted previously was all rounded for simplicity.... for exact comprehensive information....

My current mthly DD excluding the 'debt' payment plan is £85 based on mthly customer readings (previously set at £160 on Apr 2013 based on 8mths data because I moved in Sep2012)

My remaining 'debt' balance is £435 (£607 was original sum)

My 'debt' payment plan is £33.50 mth

My account balance is currently £155 in credit (this excludes the remaing 'debt' balance)

This is quite a simple and clear situation to me, but it takes some patience and time to digest the information.

If I had simply paid the 'debt' in full back in dec 2013 the over payment, that it in fact is, would have been reviewed at the DD review date and my mthly DD payment adjusted taking that over payment into consideration.

Nada666

After three or four months of post-winter payments you would expect a reasonable balance. £155 balance is only £40 per month being saved for next winter's heating. Not at all excessive and it seems your payment is fair.

Of course you may have a very modest winter demand but for most households putting aside £38 of an £85 instalment is not too high.

Surprisingly, npower's calculator may be working fairly.

(There is no need to enquote 'debt'. In context it is simply a way to label separate sections - it does not carry any moral or legal stigma or weight.)

TickersPlaysPop

I'd like to see a summary from NPower at the end of each year, it is a simple idea, they have not chosen to do it this way:

Balance at the end of the preceding year (2013)
Total energy used for past year (2014)
The tariff at each point in time during the past year (2014)
Total sum of cash paid to NPower (2014)

This could be a statement issued once a year, and also provided if requested by the customer at any time.

Then we can all see with clarity and transparency what is going on. Do other companies do this? If so I want to move to them!

The prediction today for my usage for the coming year is

4760 elec
14100 gas

This is estimated to be £1500 or £1400 depending on tariff I choose. So maybe they have included the debt when setting the current DD amount? Well ..... i don't think so because at the end of the year i will be negative by around 350 quid based on the £85/mth. The remaining £345 debt is being dealt with separately by the £33.50/mth.

So.... i don't think the NPower calculator is correct or fair.... But i have no way of being 100% sure because in the first 8 mths i was on the standard tariff and they did not send me a letter when they changed the cost per unit of energy.

So in short, as even admitted by NPower they have many problems with their billing systems... Probably, partly because in the past they over complicated the system to the point of it being incomprehensible suiting only themselves making supplier comparisons impossible. Due to regulator pressure they have 'simplified' the system.... But... There is still more they can do to make the system transparent and possible to deconvolute.

matelodave

It's not really all that difficult to read your own meter, take the old reading from the new reading to find out how much you've used, multiply it by the tariff, add on the standing charge and you will then know how much you've got to pay. Do it every month and you will then know whether your direct debit is covering it. You can also use the information to check your bills and even make sure that that your direct debit is being taken from your bank account (you have to check your bank statement for that).

If you do these things then you won't end up with arrears or ginormous bills that you can't pay because you'll know how much you are using and will be able to reduce it if it's too much

TickersPlaysPop

Cheers Dave

Great idea..... However,...

The Debt built up because of NPowers errors and system problems, not lack of meters readings and effort on my part. Compensation and a generous payment plan were NPowers acknowledgement of their mistakes, and there were multiple problems over 6 mths.

You have done exactly what the call centre person did to me on Thursday, not take on board all the facts, put words in my mouth, and use a disrespectful tone.

You have completely missed the point, so please read all of my posts on this thread before chipping in.

Nada666

The trouble, TickersPlays, is you keep changing your question and throwing in new figures with each post - remind you of a supplier you know?

Your original question was about the original repayment for the outstanding balance (not outstanding through any fault of yours.) No, this debt should not be changed.

I also think it is not crazy to assume people could well spend £300 more this coming winter than last. If indeed £85 is a fair sum for these last twelve months then an extra £25 to cover a reversion to the mean seems fair enough.

You can more forcefully set out a written complaint and demand what you deem an appropriate sum. But I don't think a first-line telephone operator is going to over-ride things.

TickersPlaysPop

Nada666 wrote: »

Your original question was about the original repayment for the outstanding balance (not outstanding through any fault of yours.) No, this debt should not be changed.

But I don't think a first-line telephone operator is going to over-ride things.

I'll try this one more time.... in a nut shell.... Does anybody here disagree with this following statement?

"The original debt value used to set up debt payment plans SHOULD be reviewed once the actual and real amount of energy used for that period of time is known. "

My £607 debt was based on an over estimation on how much energy NPower thought i would use. The inaccuracy was because the DD amount was based on only 8mths usage across a winter!

NPower historically, only review the mthly DD amount once a year. I don't have a problem with this at all, as long as debt amounts are adjust in light of real usage.

I don't expect front line call centre staff to over ride anything, i expect them to listen and conduct a conversation in a way that ensures they have understood the customers point, not jump to conclusions and ignore the fact i was telling them they have not understood my point.