There is a Mobile Phone Blacklist!

AlanMoneySavingMan

Did you know that your phone can be blacklisted - which means it can never get service again? This is not SIM card level locking, this is IMEI level blacklisting and it all seems very secret. Result is we're left with a fully functioning but useless £300 Samsung smartphone.

Has this happened to others too? Well, this is what happened to us.

We got my wife a sim-free Samsung S4 Mini for Christmas from an Amazon reseller. On boxing day we went into a Vodafone shop, got a SIM card for it and the phone worked fine until mid June. Then on or about the 20th June it stopped working - failing to connect to the Vodafone network.

We called voda to report fault. After a little troubleshooting they said we should try a new Sim and they sent out a new one - but that did not solve the problem - called voda again and they said phone must be faulty (did not seem to check for any other possibility). Returned phone to Samsung under warranty.


After almost two weeks (yes, really) phone returned from Samsung with no fault found, they said our phone's IMEI (a manufactured-in serial number, unique to each phone) is BLACKLISTED.



Called voda to get un-blacklisted. But, they say Vodafone did not blacklist it, and has no way to find out who did - so cannot help any further. Suggested we contact vendor.

Contacted vendor by email - no response after 3 days so contacted Amazon who say more than 90 days has elapsed since purchase and so they can't help. Still no response from original seller after 10 days and - guess what - they are no longer an Amazon reseller.

So through no fault of ours we have a bricked phone, but can't find out who blacklisted the phone, or why, or how to remedy situation! Seems like a very murky system to me and one which I don't think many people are aware of.



We have asked the communications Ombusdman to take this case on, so I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else during the same time period? If so contact me so we can make the Ombudsman aware that some widespread scam is afoot!



Could be that someone just blacklisted the wrong IMEI through a typo or something, but there seems to be no point of contact for blacklisting of mobile phones (unable to find one on Ofcom site or even on Google) to get that checked - and that just seems plain wrong.



Any ideas and comments gratefully received.

grumbler

It's normal to blacklist all stolen phones and it's not a secret. I think there are some ways to find out who blocked it.
And it's common when people sell their phones on e-bay and then report them stolen to claim on insurance. Don't know how common this is for Amazon.
Was it a new phone or second hand? What sort of reseller it was?
Any chance you paid by a credit card and can use s75 protection?

flashg67

I feel for you and it seems like this is news to you, but it's common unfortunately.


There are dodgy traders who will reprogram the imei (though it's illegal) and it will still work outside the UK anyway, AFAIK, the block only relates to UK networks.


A common scam is to upgrade a contract, sell the phone (to you), wait a while, then report it stolen and claim on the insurance, leaving the seller quids in and you with a nearly worthless brick.


Edit - beaten to it by 1 minute by Grumbler!


I'd at least name & shame the seller and presume you've left a negative on Amazon. Technically, I'd guess it's fraud, but I don't know how far you'll get with the ombudsman.

AlanMoneySavingMan

Thanks for your replies.

This was a brand new phone bought through an Amazon reseller, yes using a Santander debit card.

Yes, I had no idea this blacklist existed - well, if anyone had asked me I suppose I would have said there would have to be some kind of system like that - but what really irks me is that there's no way to find out WHY the phone has been blacklisted. Was this vendor dodgy (and if so why are Amazon wanting to wash their hands of it) was it an admin mistake on someone's part, was it something we did somehow...? - I'm resigned to the loss now and we have bought a replacement phone - but it seems like the system should be more victim friendly somehow?

Does anyone know how to find out who blocked it?
Thanks again all.

ManAtHome

Not that new (or secret) - I worked on the IMEI blocking system for one of the UK networks over 10 years ago (probably 2001 or 2002). System was brought in (as usual) when govt panicked over 'newspaper' headlines about 'MOBILE THEFT EPIDEMIC - SHOCK HORROR!!!!!!'...

System was held by the GSM Association - all networks should have access to their database (but whether they can be arrised is another question). GSMA link as a starter http://www.gsma.com/technicalprojects/fraud-security/imei-database

Rusty!

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/#axzz38ScUi9ex

Buzby

As an aside, the block can be removed by the originator, the identity of who did it is known to the GSMA (in Dublin). Networks subscribe to the service and take daily updates of the block file, adding their own requests at the same time. You can get a snapshot of the file by using the CheckMend service, but is chargeable and I'm unclear if they now provide the info you seek.

As your handset was new, it probably was a manufacturers block, this happens when shipments get 'lost' before arriving at retailers or distributors.

Nick_C

Alan, I had a similar problem with a Samsung phone bought from "Gadget Heaven" through Amazon Marketplace in January. See

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4919838

I also used the CheckMend Support Help Desk, who will be able to give you information on who blocked your phone.

https://support.recipero.com/

They dealt with my enquiry within 24 hours, and this is the response I got from them ...

Thank you for contacting CheckMEND for advice concerning the records on your property. We have investigated the serial number and have identified that the below details are associated with it and are causing a red flag that may prevent the sale of this item. Please be aware that if you are trading this item of property in to a recycler or trader and they have informed you that they will only retain it for 28 days, then we strongly recommend reading the Trade-in Frequently Asked Questions section located further down in this email.

SERIAL NUMBER: (deleted)

Mobile Phone Network Block
Blocking Network: T-Mobile (UK) Limited.
Date of blocking: Wed 5th Mar 2014
Link to help article:
https://support.recipero.com/index.php?/CheckMEND/Knowledgebase/Article/View/160/0/checkmend-updating-network-block-records


What action should I take?

---

If you believe the records detailed here are incorrect, or in need of updating then you will need to arrange for these records to be removed by the organisation that has put them in place. We cannot remove these records on your behalf; however step by step advice on what you can do to remove these records can be found in the help articles of our Knowledgebase as linked above. If all records are removed then the red flag status of the handset will be cleared, making it possible for you to proceed with any trade-in or recycling issues you may have.



Trade-in Frequently Asked Questions

---

Q) Can I just get my property returned to me instead?
Q) Do I only have 28 days to resolve this?
Q) I am not the rightful owner and cannot remove these records. What should I do?

For answers to these questions please visit our Knowledgebase article linked below:
https://support.recipero.com/index.php?/CheckMEND/Knowledgebase/Article/View/162/0/checkmend-redflag-trade-in-enquiry-faq

Kind regards,

Chris

CheckMEND Support
http://support.checkmend.com/

Ticket Details
Support Ticket ID: (deleted)
Department: Support: CheckMEND
Type: Issue
Status: Closing
Priority: Normal

Support Help Desk: https://support.recipero.com/index.php?/CheckMEND

Do let us know how you get. Like you, I was horrified that a brand new phone bought through Amazon could be rendered useless. I was lucky, Amazon allowed me to return my phone for a refund, but I never did discover how the problem occurred in the first place.

I do wonder if this is fraud, and if you bought your phone from the same supplier - Gadget Heaven - I will be happy to back up any report you make to the police or trading standards.

d123

Buying from a reseller is always a risk, you aren't buying from Amazon, but possibly just an individual who sells the occasional phone.

Nothing stopping a dishonest seller moving a load of stolen phones or doing an insurance scam on his upgrades, both which will lead to an eventual blacklist.

Widelats

Would like to know which Amazon seller you got this brick off??

AlanMoneySavingMan

Wow thanks for all the useful replies folks! Will definitely follow up on those.

The Amazon reseller was called - and I quote "Order by 23/12 for Xmas Delivery" and the phone was selling below the Amazon price current at that time.

Yes, feel foolish now to have bought from a reseller with such a - well, odd(?) and anonymous name, but heat of the moment and looked like a bargain, I expect quite a few readers will have been there at some stage and the feedback profile was okay then (shows how much that's worth really..... ).

I have to add that I am pretty steamed at Vodafone, seems like there is a LOT more info and help they could have given me. I may write and complain to them - typical of their customer service, if it's run of the mill stuff then they're fine, but anything even slightly off-piste and they just try to get you off the line as fast as they can.

Thanks again for all the tips and links. I'll report back on how we get on.

Regards
Alan