Set aside CCJ sent to old address for own space parking

The_Deep

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, (perhaps more so in own space car parks), so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies

dan0116

The_Deep wrote: »

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, (perhaps more so in own space car parks), so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies

I certainly will be doing. The cynic in me thinks that these companies almost have an incentive to pursue people who don't respond on the hope that they can get the CCJ issued and frighten people into paying.

I must admit that I wasn't far from being in this bucket myself until the posted above helped out.

On the basis that I do apply for a set aside, is it best to include the defence (or a summary of it) that I intend to push on with if I am re-issued with an LBC (presuming the CCJ is successfully set aside)? My only real defence is that the tickets were issued for not displaying a permit in my own space and that there was no contract entered into between me and the parking company or my landlord and the parking company. An added complication is that I know the landlord no longer owns the flat and the parking company no longer manages the parking in that building.

dan0116

Hi all,

I recently discovered a CCJ for c.£700 that was sent to my old address in relation to 3 or 4 PCNs issued by UK Parking Control Limited for parking in my own allocated parking space in a secure underground car park without a permit displayed (I'd forgotten to put it in the window when swapping between my and my flatmates car on a few occasions). I know that this is what it will be for as I received some debt recovery letters before moving from this old address and was told that that was the car park it related to by the lady on the phone at Northampton County Court Business Centre. The Judgement itself doesn't say this, rather it says:

"THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS FROM THE DEFENDANT THE SUM OF £xxx IN RESPECT OF UNPAID PARKING NOTICES ISSUED AS A RESULT OF THE DEFENDANT'S BREACH OF TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF PARKING AT A SITE MANAGED BY THE CLAIMANT."

Timeline is::
- May 2014 moved from parents' address to address where PCNs were issued ("offending address")
- May 2014 - the day I moved in was the day i received the first PCN for the first alleged offence
- May 2014 - i immediately appealed prior to NTK and was advised of a £15 settlement offer which i think ignored.
- 2016 received three more PCNs for alleged offences. Notably all of the correspondence for these was sent to my parents address as I hadn't changed my keeper address details.
- Sep 2017 moved to new address
- May 18 CCJ issued
- Sep 19 CCJ discovered

My logbook has never been registered at the "offending address" where the court documentation was served. Instead it was registered at my parents' address and still is due to poor admin on my part which I have resolved now. All of the NTKs I received went to my parents' address which they always informed me of but never any court papers and so it seems the parking company and their solicitors were sending correspondence to two separate addresses for the same issue. The letters to my parents address have since stopped and this may have coincided with the judgement having been issued.

I did attempt a poorly researched appeal back in 2014 when I received the first PCN and the original charge was reduced from £60 to £15 which I then decided to ignore out of principal. They may have believed this was an ok address to use on that basis. Albeit I'd argue that my last correspondence with them from that address in 2014 was some 4 years before the CCJ was issued in 2018 and in that time they'd had no correspondence from me.

I've read over the Newbies thread and see that I should apply to get the CCJ set aside on the grounds that it was served to the wrong address.

I plan to send a Draft Order and the Witness statement to get the CCJ set aside along the same lines as the ones in post #21 of the below thread by Saggi detailing the usual arguments about proving I was the driver of the vehicle.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5585047/set-aside-ccj-advice-on-defence-statement-please&page=2

Given I'm nearly certain this relates to parking in my own space should I include the particulars around that in my witness statement to further strengthen the chances of getting the CCJ set aside and moreover potentially fast track the case to getting scrapped all together as I've seen happen in a few examples on here?

I'm thinking of adding bits from these two defences that are specific to PCNs in own space circumstances from Coupon-mad and Johnersh:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74708527#Comment_74708527

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72977032#Comment_72977032

My worry is that this may highlight that I knew about the issue already before I moved house and prejudice my point that I knew nothing about the issue(albeit I actually never opened any letters other than the PCNs themselves and the debt recovery letters and so genuinely had no idea I'd been issued with court papers).

It also highlights that I know details as to why the PCNs should not be valid though and gives me the opportunity to make arguments around primacy of contract specific to the own space scenario. There may be a question from the court as to how I know this though. Would it be fine to put in my witness statement that the lady on the phone from Northampton County Court Business Centre told me that the PCNs related to x address where I used to live?

I'd be interested to hear people's views and sorry for the long winded post.

Coupon-mad

I think you have done some great research, and it is refreshing to read your post.

I would include a bullet point 'defence skeleton' summary (annexed separately to the WS about the fact the claim was not properly served and thy made no attempt to trace your address over the years). In the supplementary page, briefly outline your defence and also mention that parking firms cannot recover added costs of £60 per PCN as this goes behind the decision and findings in paras 98 and 198 of the ParkingEye v Beavis case, and offends against the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 which caps the parking charge at the 'sum on the Notice to keeper', and offends against the CPRs requirement for costs to be both proportionate and justified. So the huge sum in this CCJ is an abuse of process based upon the law, case law and court procedures, and is a matter that you would certainly have defended, had the claim(s) been served to your address where you reside.

The fact you knew about 2014 PCNs that you appealed, means you thought you had dealt with them then and were entitled to believe the unfair charges were cancelled when you heard no more. It is OK to say you knew about old unfair PCNs. There is no way you were expecting to be sued for parking at your own home where you had primacy of contract and rights of way and/or a specific grant allowing unfettered parking rights, etc.

Surely they had your proper address from the appeal though? Or were you living with your parents at the time of appeal, then moved later?

Redx

Email a SAR to the DPO at Ukpc to get all the documents and pictures and data about you and your vehicle attaching a copy of the V5C or redacted utility bills for your current address as proof of I D under the GDPR law

Email the DVLA giving dates and ask for the data regarding who asked for your details and when , if at all , because you believe that Ukpc breached their Kadoe contract with the DVLA, meaning they should have accessed keeper details for every pcn

Umkomaas

Email the DVLA giving dates and ask for the data regarding who asked for your details and when , if at all , because you believe that Ukpc breached their Kadoe contract with the DVLA, meaning they should have accessed keeper details for every pcn

You need to provide the registered keeper's full name and address, the address on the V5C logbook and the Vehicle Registration Mark of the vehicle involved in the parking incident.

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk

This service is free of charge.

Even though you email your request, the DVLA will respond via Royal Mail.

The_Deep

They may well have interfered with your leasehold right to quiet enjoyment to your property, possibly an offence under the landlord and tenants, read this,

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

What does your lease/AST say about parking? Do you have Primacy of Contract?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies[/FONT]

dan0116

Thank you for all the replies. I'm feeling more confident that I'll be able to pull a decent defence together now after all of the input above.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I would include...

Thanks - this is all useful stuff and I'll look to include it all in a skeleton defence as you note.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

The fact you knew about 2014 PCNs that you appealed, means you thought you had dealt with them then and were entitled to believe the unfair charges were cancelled when you heard no more. It is OK to say you knew about old unfair PCNs. There is no way you were expecting to be sued for parking at your own home where you had primacy of contract and rights of way and/or a specific grant allowing unfettered parking rights, etc.

Surely they had your proper address from the appeal though? Or were you living with your parents at the time of appeal, then moved later?

For clarity on this I appealed while I was living in the "offending address" but I can't recall where their correspondence around the appeal was sent. I expect it was sent to the offending address as a result of me appealing to a phone number or address on the first PCN itself and telling them that that's where I lived which is a bit unhelpful. Further down you'll see that I have done an SAR with the DVLA and can see that the parking company never attempted to get my address details from the DVLA back in 2014.

As I say my car has never been registered to the offending address and so that could be the only reason I can think of.

Redx wrote: »

Email the DVLA giving dates and ask for the data regarding who asked for your details and when , if at all , because you believe that Ukpc breached their Kadoe contract with the DVLA, meaning they should have accessed keeper details for every pcn

I should have mentioned that I've done this and received a reply from the DVLA. My keeper details were accessed three times in 2016 (so for PCNs 2,3 and 4 presumably) (2 years after PCN 1 and POPLA appeal) and the address given to them was my parents' address.

They absolutely received no correspondence from me from the offending address from 2015 onwards and so when they checked the DVLA for my address and were told my parents' address they should have begun sending any important correspondence there. As noted they did send some debt recovery letters there and could have sent the court documents there also as a result of which i certainly would have defended them as noted by Coupon-mad.

Re my defence do I just add the Draft Order, Witness statement and Defence Skeleton to my application for set aside and leave providing the evidence bundle until nearer the point where I'm actually given a court date? Or is there no need to provide evidence in advance of a set aside hearing?

Coupon-mad

Doing a SAR to the PPC will show the address they had for your appeal and their reply, it will help shed light on their 'evidence' as well.

Do you still have access to a copy of the lease or tenancy terms? You will need it.

dan0116

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Doing a SAR to the PPC will show the address they had for your appeal and their reply, it will help shed light on their 'evidence' as well.

Redx wrote: »

Email a SAR to the DPO at Ukpc to get all the documents and pictures and data about you and your vehicle attaching a copy of the V5C or redacted utility bills for your current address as proof of I D under the GDPR law

Thanks Coupon-mad, Redx. I'll do this now and I agree this should hopefully point to why this mixup has occurred.

I've only just sent my logbook off for the address to be updated to my new address and so I only have a scan that includes my parents' address. Do you think I should wait until my new logbook arrives before I do this SAR so that I can provide proof of my new address and to avoid confusing matters further? Alternatively I could just provide the logbook with my parents' address and a utility bill to prove where I live now and note to them that all correspondence should be sent to my new address from now on.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Do you still have access to a copy of the lease or tenancy terms? You will need it.

I do have a copy of the Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement which references the Superior Lease that the landlord would have been subject to as follows but I do not have access to that lease. There is not reference in teh document I have whatsoever to any parking restrictions.

"3.98 Subject to the Tenant having been provided with a copy of the Superior Lease or a notice of the restrictions in it, to comply with all the conditions of any Superior Lease under which the Landlord holds the Premises, and to observe any restrictions to which the Superior Lease is subject."

I can't recall if I was ever provided with a copy of that lease but can attempt to get hold of one.