Set aside CCJ sent to old address for own space parking

dan0116

Hi,

I live in a rented apartment with shared parking, however I am allocated my own space, which only me and my flatmates may park in. UKPC signage informs residents of how you must display a valid permit. On the day my charge was issued I had displayed a valid permit (which I provided a copy of in my appeals to both POPLA and UKPC). However it had fallen from the windscreen and so was face down on the dashboard. Even in the photos UKPC produced the white permit can clearly be seen on the dashboard although upside down and so it is clear that there was a permit in the car that day.

Originally UKPC acknowledged this fact and offered me a reduced charge (from £50 to £15). My amateur appeal to POPLA was refused.

I have not spoken to my landlord about this yet but if he owns the space then is it not down to him and him alone to impose parking restrictions on his own private land (which I would have to have agreed to in writing to be enforceable on me).

Thanks again. I feel I am in the right here but concede that many on here are much more knowledgeable on the subject.

Update:

The timeline is:
- May 2014: first PCN is received from UKPC on the day I move from my parents' address to the offending address. I appealed pre NTK, giving the "offending address". I was offered a reduction from £90 charge to £15 which i ignored then out of principle. My main defence is primacy of contract relating to the apartment lease as well as abuse of process due to teh now inflated PCN charge of £160.

- Sep - Nov 16 - I received three more PCNs for the same issue. All NTKs go to my parents' address as I hadn't changed my logbook address. This was somewhat intentional as I preferred that important mail went to my parents' as the mailboxes at my rented apartment weren't too secure. I ignored all of these and the subsequent debt collection letters.

- Sep 17 - I move to my new address

- May 18 - CCJ is issued to "offending address" not to my knowledge

- Sep 19 - I discover the CCJ through a credit check

- Oct 19 - I submit a draft order and witness statement to support my N244 form (below post for anyone who wants to crib it) to get the CCJ set aside and have now been given a court date in January for the set aside hearing. I have made sure to request that the £255 set aside fee is reserved.

- Jan 20 - CCJ successfully set aside. Draft defence in post #51 for anyone who would be kind enough to comment

Redx

we cannot tell you "what to do", that is your choice to make

I can tell you its not a "fine" , never was and never will be , only a court or a judge can fine you and neither have done so , this is an INVOICE

as your popla appeal failed due to a lack of knowledge there is nothing more that can be done other than get the landowner or managing agent to cancel the charge

the PPC can pursue you for up to 6 years under the small claims court procedures so may or may not do

they may give it to debt collectors in the meantime, who will pursue you for 6 years , or eventually will return to the creditor for recommended court action

you may weather the storm and never see court papers, if you receive an LBC or court papers from northampton or salford then come back for help

you do not have to pay, despite what popla said, but it may go to court in the end, in which case you will either win or lose, if you lose, you pay

the choice is yours to make

please read the NEWBIES sricky thread at the top of this forum for more details on debt collectors and the correct procedures if it happens again

fisherjim

It's UKPC who are a bunch of bullying idiots who up till now have only been to court when they were taken there!

Umkomaas

Whether any PPC might or might not take court action in the future would be pure conjecture, but some idea of their current inclination to do court can be found in the latest information, based over an 18 month period might help. Have a browse through these two FOI request responses.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/179544/response/444525/attach/3/A%20FINAL%20REPLY%20TO%20LEWIS%2085865.doc

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/205660/response/510306/attach/3/AA%20REPLY%20TO%20Craig%20Lewis%2090006%203.doc

trisontana

It's not a FINE!

Coupon-mad

It's not a penalty charge and there would be no 'summons'(!) either!

dan0116

Hi all,

Firstly if there is a sticky for similar issues then apologies - if I can be directed to that I'll look there and delete this thread.

I recently came to apply for a mortgage and on looking at my Experian file realised that I have a terrible credit score due to a CCJ issued in May last year. This was over a year after i left the address to which all of the claim and CCJ paperwork presumably was issued.

The CCJ is in relation to 4 PCNs issued for parking without displaying a valid permit. However the space I was parked in was allocated specifically to the apartment I was renting at the time in secure underground parking. I appealed one through POPLA at the time it was issued and the amount was reduced from £60 to £12 (hardly a confident stance to take from the claimant) and stupidly decided to ignore at this stage and also ignore the 3 further tickets.

Based on the template defences and superb advice in here I would undoubtedly have disputed these tickets at the LBC/LOC stage had I received one but I was entirely unaware that any claim had been entered into (I did receive some of the earlier letters from the parking company and the "pseudo debt collector letters" but nothing official from a solicitor prior to me having moved address.

I have read about having a CCJ set aside, to effectively reset the clock and allow me to defend the claim once i have all the evidence etc. There is a fee attached to doing this of £255 with no guarantee of success.

My question is is it worth bothering to do this or should i just pay the debt, which stands at £752?

Also even if i do pay the debt is there a way to get the CCJ set aside anyway and off my record?

I'm pretty distressed by the situation so any help is much appreciated.

Umkomaas

I have read about having a CCJ set aside, to effectively reset the clock and allow me to defend the claim once i have all the evidence etc. There is a fee attached to doing this of £255 with no guarantee of success.

If the court documents were delivered to a former address, meaning you were totally unaware of any proceedings, a set aside should be automatically granted. It doesn't mean the charge is dismissed, that would need defending if the PPC continues to pursue the original claims.

Based on the template defences and superb advice in here I would undoubtedly have disputed these tickets at the LBC/LOC stage had I received one but I was entirely unaware that any claim had been entered into (I did receive some of the earlier letters from the parking company and the "pseudo debt collector letters" but nothing official from a solicitor prior to me having moved address.

It's not clear about the logistics, but are you saying you've had correspondence to your new address before the court papers were issued to your former address?

My question is is it worth bothering to do this or should i just pay the debt, which stands at £752?

If the CCJ is dated May, then your current credit rating is affected. Paying off the judgment now will not change that rating, and you're still saddled with it for 6 years. So don't act prematurely on that without considering all the options.

Firstly if there is a sticky for similar issues then apologies - if I can be directed to that I'll look there and delete this thread.

The NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 covers set aside procedures.

No need to (ask a Board Guide) delete the thread, leave it live for ongoing discussion as you decide how you are going to progress this.

dan0116

Umkomaas wrote: »

It's not clear about the logistics, but are you saying you've had correspondence to your new address before the court papers were issued to your former address?

Thanks Umkomaas for the quick response and apologies for the lack of clarity on the above. Your response is really helpful and on that basis it feels like applying for a set aside might be the way to go but I'll read the sticky you've directed me to.

If a set aside was granted would it then be a case of replying to their LBC in the usual way i.e. requesting all the data and evidence they hold in relation to my case etc?

I've had no correspondence in relation to this at all to my new address. To my old address I received the initial letters that detail the PCN that are sent from the parking company itself (UK Parking Control Limited in this case) and then some other follow up letters.

I have never had sight of any Letter of Claim or any of the subsequent court documents (I'm not even sure what these are).

Interestingly my car had never been registered at the rental property I was previously and so I'm not sure how they would even have got the address if not legitimately from the DVLA. Could they have gotten the address legitimately from the electoral roll?

Umkomaas

If a set aside was granted would it then be a case of replying to their LBC in the usual way i.e. requesting all the data and evidence they hold in relation to my case etc?

I think the sticky will cover that.

Interestingly my car had never been registered at the rental property I was previously and so I'm not sure how they would even have got the address if not legitimately from the DVLA. Could they have gotten the address legitimately from the electoral roll?

What address is shown on the V5C (logbook)? As an aside (but a very important one!), have you updated it with your new address with the DVLA?

If you're puzzled about how they accessed your details, you might want to check with the DVLA, by whom and when were your details accessed.

You should email the DVLA and ask which organisations (when and for what reason) accessed the registered keeper's data from them between a range of dates which includes the date(s) of the parking incident(s). You need to provide the registered keeper's full name and address, the address on the V5C logbook and the Vehicle Registration Mark of the vehicle involved in the parking incident.

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk

This service is free of charge.

Even though you email your request, the DVLA will respond via Royal Mail.

dan0116

Umkomaas wrote: »

What address is shown on the V5C (logbook)? As an aside (but a very important one!), have you updated it with your new address with the DVLA?

Thanks again - I just made the request to the DVLA as you've advised.

While i was living at this rental property I never changed the details on my logbook and my car remained registered at my parents' address. Some of the initial PCN correspondence was sent to my parents' address although never any court documents or LOCs.

I have since updated the address in the logbook to my current address so all is now correct.