Is the garage legally allowed to do this?

giraffe69

Have they tried negotiating with the garage i.e we expect some reduction for having done 1500 miles but not this much?

Herzlos

Or arrange for some trade up to something suitable, rather than a straight sale?

They'd probably take a pretty big hit on reselling the car, but there's maybe some compromise. Even if you offered to give them it back minus the difference in retail cost for the extra owner and mileage (less than the difference to the trade price, they shouldn't be making a profit twice).

And in future, it's wise to check on what's legal/wise to tow before committing (by looking at the handbook and door post), as it can be really deceptive.

anotheruser

olias wrote: »

Or you just look it up on Google..............

Olias

Or Bing!
Or any other search engine.

caprikid1

I think the challenge of this is going to be what evidence you have regarding the questions, the response etc. I suspect non and its a your word against theirs. The garage is making good noises you just need to recognise that you probably are in a poor position in terms legal proceedings so keep up the dialog and see what can be achieved.

If there was maybe any e-mail exchange or gave the garage make and model of caravan you might have a chance.

caprikid1

To put it another way.

I sold a car , the owners have done 1500 miles in it, they have just told me they want a full refund as it won't tow their caravan.

I know the Salesman told them the previous owner used it to tow a van. What should I do ??? It's not our fault the new owners van is bigger.

Surely it was down to the buyer to check his Van + Car spec ? We only sold the Car not the car and Van.

Joe_Horner

All the people saying "you (well, your parents) should have known" are entirely missing the point of SOGA.

A trade seller's duy to give accurate informaion is not negotiable and can't be mitigated by "the buyer should have known" unless it's something so obvious that anyone could see, like it was missing a wheel or had a different coloured door. Even then he wouldn't be allowed to say it was meant to be like that, he just wouldn't have to volunteer the information unless asked.

I'm not a lawyer, but I do run my own business that involves selling to the public. I take customer care very seriously and make sure I'm up to date with the legalities so that I can be sure I offer more than I legally have to - it makes for happy customers and avoids me guest starring in my own thread on MSE

If the salesman was asked a specific question then any answer he gives must be correct regardless of how easily the buyer could find out the answer elsewhere.

That includes, if they asked "will it tow our caravan?", checking what their caravan is before saying yes. Even if they'd asked if it would tow "a" caravan there'd be a good basis for saying that the salesman should have sought to clarify the question ("what van do you have?) or qualify his answer ("yes, up to xxxx kg). In the worst case, if he doesn't know, then it's his (legal) responsibility to say he doesn't know and then go find out if they want him to.

The bottom line is that the car was sold for a specific purpose, including towing a specific caravan, which the buyer had made the seller aware of. Regardless of whether or not it could physically move it doesn't matter - if it can't tow it legally then it's not fit for the (stated) purpose and they're enitled to a refund.

With 1500 miles covered the garage will be entitled to make a deducion for that use on a mileage basis, but not for things like an extra registered keeper because that's entirely as a result of their mis-selling.

All that being said, if your parents have a caravan then the time to chck suitability really is before they start picking individual cars. hat doesn't absolve the seller in any way, but it is a way to avoid situations like this happening in the first place!


eta:

In terms of "reasonable" deduction for the mileage, most car leases specify aournd 5p per mile to allow for the extra wear and depreciation, which would be about £75 in this case. Even working on the Inland Revenue's allowed rate for business use (46p per mile), less the fuel element (say 16p / mile for around 40mpg average) that gives 30p / mile for the rest, which would be £450.

Personally, if I was the seller, I'd write the mileage off as a goodwill gesture. Unless the buyer really got my back up in their approach, of course

AdrianC

Joe_Horner wrote: »

All the people saying "you (well, your parents) should have known" are entirely missing the point of SOGA.

I don't think so...

If the salesman was asked a specific question then any answer he gives must be correct regardless of how easily the buyer could find out the answer elsewhere.

As several people have already said... "IF". Even if it _is_ an "IF" that happens to be true, prove it. Even on the balance of probabilities, it ain't certain that it's going to happen.

Joe_Horner

AdrianC wrote: »

I don't think so...

Sorry, I edited to clarify that bit and we seem to have cross posted. The point is that SOGA duties on a seller can't be negotiated or mitigated away, no mater how stupidly the buyer acts.

The only (kind of) exception to that is if the seller gives correct advice which the buyer decides to ignore. In that case the seller has fulfilled his duty by advising correctly and OGA doesn't require him to refuse a sale that he knows is wrong.

Negligent mis-selling, such as not checking what caravan they have, is treated exactly the same as dishonesty within the law.

AdrianC wrote: »

As several people have already said... "IF". Even if it _is_ an "IF" that happens to be true, prove it. Even on the balance of probabilities, it ain't certain that it's going to happen.

Given that, from the information the OP has given (which is all we can base anything on), the garage has accepted responsibility for mis-advising them, it's really not open to doubt. How you go about chasing it is another matter.

Personally, I'd start by getting their offer (inculding the relevant admission) in writing on the implication that I'm going to accept it. Then, once the admission was in writing, I'd change my mind.

topdaddy_2

Joe_Horner wrote: »

All the people saying "you (well, your parents) should have known" are entirely missing the point of SOGA. ... ..
All that being said, if your parents have a caravan then the time to chck suitability really is before they start picking individual cars. hat doesn't absolve the seller in any way, but it is a way to avoid situations like this happening in the first place

Personally, if I was the seller, I'd write the mileage off as a goodwill gesture. Unless the buyer really got my back up in their approach, of course

Abosolutly this. Its unwise to not be aware of tow car and trailer combination limits for anyone about to tow but still if asked for a car suitable to drive in this way and the sales man says it is then its been missold.

ginsterman

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Sorry, I edited to clarify that bit and we seem to have cross posted. The point is that SOGA duties on a seller can't be negotiated or mitigated away, no mater how stupidly the buyer acts.

The only (kind of) exception to that is if the seller gives correct advice which the buyer decides to ignore. In that case the seller has fulfilled his duty by advising correctly and OGA doesn't require him to refuse a sale that he knows is wrong.

Negligent mis-selling, such as not checking what caravan they have, is treated exactly the same as dishonesty within the law.




Given that, from the information the OP has given (which is all we can base anything on), the garage has accepted responsibility for mis-advising them, it's really not open to doubt. How you go about chasing it is another matter.

Personally, I'd start by getting their offer (inculding the relevant admission) in writing on the implication that I'm going to accept it. Then, once the admission was in writing, I'd change my mind.

Thanks for this reply, my parents did give the weight and type of caravan they have to the salesman which is why he has admitted liability. Yes my father should have checked himself but they are not very internet savvy and hence asked the salesman. I have recommended that they send a letter by registered post stating they are unhappy with their offer and that they are prepared to accept a full refund minus acceptable mileage costs and quoting the relevant passages of the SOGA.