Executor's out of pocket expenses

BobQ

OP, You need to consider the expenses as distinct from debts paid to those owed money from the estate (such as outstanding Council Tax). Expenses incurred by professional advisors (such a solicitor, a bank or an accountant) employed by the Executor to administer the estate (eg to prepare accounts, apply for probate) will include their professional fees (time spent) and their expenses (eg mileage).

A non-professional Executor may only claim reasonable expenses which need to be recorded and documented with evidence. the Executor may not like this but as a beneficiary you are entitled to challenge any payments made from the estate. So it is in the interest if the Executor to maintain proper records and provide an account. The non-professional Executor cannot charge for their time only their expenses which does not include loss of earnings.

This is distinct from the proceeds of selling assets or the costs of clearing a house of unsaleable stuff.

Note that an Executor is required to carry out their duties under the legal requirements defined for the role and can be personally accountable for a failure to do so.

bouncydog1

Administering my late MIL's estate for my DH incurred around £100 of out of pocket expenses and included postage, printing, certifications of documents and telephone calls. All were listed and where possible receipts obtained.

If an executor needed to take time off work and wasn't paid then I expect the hourly rate could be claimed, but in your position I would ask for an itemised list and kick up a fuss if the expenses cannot be evidenced. 7500 sounds like pulling a fast one IMO.

Mattygroves2

bouncydog1 wrote: »

If an executor needed to take time off work and wasn't paid then I expect the hourly rate could be claimed.

This isn't the case. A non professional executor can't claim for their time even if they have to take unpaid leave.

BobQ

bouncydog1 wrote: »

Administering my late MIL's estate for my DH incurred around £100 of out of pocket expenses and included postage, printing, certifications of documents and telephone calls. All were listed and where possible receipts obtained.

If an executor needed to take time off work and wasn't paid then I expect the hourly rate could be claimed, but in your position I would ask for an itemised list and kick up a fuss if the expenses cannot be evidenced. 7500 sounds like pulling a fast one IMO.

I am not certain you are correct about a non-professional Executor claiming for loss of earnings. My understanding is that you can only claim for expenses you incur not what you lose and cannot be paid for your services in any way.

Ultimately it only matters if the residual beneficiary challenges any claim you make, since you are in effect spending their money so as Crabapple states above it is negotiable. For example the residual beneficiary might prefer you to claim loss of earnings as an expense if the alternative is that you refuse to be an executor or employ professionals to so a job. So if you need to be reimbursed 2 days pay to arrange for the sale of some valuables, it will probably be cheaper than paying a solicitor to do this!

BobQ

Mattygroves2 wrote: »

This isn't the case. A non professional executor can't claim for their time even if they have to take unpaid leave.

Strictly true and it is wrong for the executor to assume it can be done. But it can be negotiated with the residual beneficiary where it makes sense.

Shelldean

OH is dealing with his grandmothers estate, and we've got a list of expenses to be claimed back once we can.
This include
changing the title deed to the grave £85 Probate £215
Death certs, parking, postage, phone calls, meal for the family ( agreed beforehand with the beneficiaries) Plus am sure there are others but w/o getting the file out I cant be certain.
But his expenses wont come to anywhere near £1000.
He hasn't charged for his time, we've tried to sort things when he was already off for a different reason, on a Saturday where possible, and in the evenings ( call centres usually open late) And I've made calls on his behalf during the day.


In fact if anyone should claim for their time it will be me!!! I've done all the letter writing and all the form filling etc, plus spent lots of time on the phone dealing with this estate.




I would defiantly ask for a breakdown of what the £7500 covers, as it seems an awful lot, compared to ours, and we've claimed for everything we could legitimately

Mojisola

Shelldean wrote: »

OH is dealing with his grandmothers estate, and we've got a list of expenses to be claimed back once we can.
This include
changing the title deed to the grave £85 Probate £215
Death certs, parking, postage, phone calls, meal for the family ( agreed beforehand with the beneficiaries) Plus am sure there are others but w/o getting the file out I cant be certain.
But his expenses wont come to anywhere near £1000.
He hasn't charged for his time, we've tried to sort things when he was already off for a different reason, on a Saturday where possible, and in the evenings ( call centres usually open late) And I've made calls on his behalf during the day.

I didn't count things like paying for death certs as "executor expenses" - those were costs necessary to do the job.

I listed those separately to my personal expenses like phone calls and mileage.

BobQ

Shelldean wrote: »

I would defiantly ask for a breakdown of what the £7500 covers, as it seems an awful lot, compared to ours, and we've claimed for everything we could legitimately

The OP has not been clear about the question being asked. Settling debts (like a Council Tax Bill) or paying for necessary services (eg purchasing death certificates) are NOT expenses.

The £7500 would be excessive if it covered out of pocket expenses (like a hotel bill, postage, mileage) for a simple estate. From what the OP states these costs accumulated over 4 years so assuming the work was done efficiently then it may not be a simple estate. Also it may include a lot of costs that are not expenses but simply debts.

As a non-professional, the executor cannot claim for their time (without agreement of the residual beneficiaries). However, if the executor has employed professionals to apply for probate, prepare accounts, transfer or sell assets, then the costs could easily amount to this sum. The OP implies that professionals have been used.

A friend of mine with an estate consisting largely of two houses, various shares, a pension fund and several savings accounts asked a solicitor what it would cost for the firm to deal with everything (including registering her death, dealing with IHT and probate, selling assets settling all debts) and was surprised to be told about £6000. So £7500 is not that unreasonable if professionals did most of the work.

Tara*_2

Thanks all, you've been really helpful.

BobQ - the executor had a solicitor appointed by my grandmother to assist with the administration. Their costs are detailed and have been taken out of the estate. All debts, including council tax and utilities have been accounted for and deducted from the estate. The out of pocket expenses are not detailed, just random rounded up figures. Also I found out by enquiring with the land registry that the house sold for X but on the accounts it says Y. I assume they have deducted the charges involved in selling the property, but again it is not detailed. I have requested all of the above to be clarified 4 times now, a formal complaint will be made to the solicitors next week.

No laws to protect residual beneficiaries it seems...

Shelldean

Mojisola wrote: »

I didn't count things like paying for death certs as "executor expenses" - those were costs necessary to do the job.

I listed those separately to my personal expenses like phone calls and mileage.

That's true Mojisola, but I've just included everything we've paid for and need reimbursement for. And even including those our claim against the estate is less than a grand.