largest shed/building I can put in garden with permission

cyclonebri1

planning_officer wrote: »

No. The 30sqm limit is regarding building regs. It has nothing to do with planning permission.

Planning permission may still be required - you can't just say that 30 sqm is fine. It depends on where on the property it is and whether the property has been extended before. For example, you can extend up to 4m to the rear of a detached house (more if you go through a Prior Notification procedure). However, if the property has already been extended, say 3m, beyond the original rear wall, then you only have 1m left to play with - anything more requires PP or a simplified Prior Notification under the larger extensions scheme.

Ok, I was working from memory and have checked the planning portal. It was the fact that the requirements for BG are included within that section that got me.

I do have 1 further question though, the PP lists sheds and summer houses etc, where does a detached conservatory or "orangery" fit within this?

Waterlily24

We built a quadruple garage that did not need planning permission just building regs. One stipulation was that the roof couldn't be above a certain height but it was high enough for a pitched roof.

cyclonebri1

Waterlily24 wrote: »

We built a quadruple garage that did not need planning permission just building regs. One stipulation was that the roof couldn't be above a certain height but it was high enough for a pitched roof.

That has to be 24ft x 24 ft, or around 36sq metres. The property must have been huge originally as that's the size of a small town house?

Waterlily24

Hi It's four garage doors wide hubby thinks its about 13 matres x 6 metres. so about 78 sq metres. I think 24ft x 24ft would be a bit more that 36 sq metres. He uses two of the garages as a workshop but we built it as garages because we thought it might be more useful when we come to sell. The garages are completely separate to the house and the original bungalow was probably smaller than the garages lol.

planning_officer

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

the PP [Planning Portal] lists sheds and summer houses etc, where does a detached conservatory or "orangery" fit within this?

Anything detached is classed as an outbuilding for the purpose of assessing whether they need planning permission - i.e. Class E of the General Permitted Development Order (Class A covers extensions separately). Obviously, an attached conservatory or orangery is an extension falling to be assessed under Class A.

enion

I know for planning purposes a conservatory is classed as class A (extension), but the planning portal
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/conservatories/
seems to be listing extra size rules for conservatories that I can't find anywhere in the Welsh gov't's guidance notes (I'm in Wales) or the The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Amendment) (Wales) Order 2013?
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2013/1776/made
Which one is it then and where is that sizing info from?

Also, can a side extension stick out further than the rear elevation of the original house (without making it a wrap-around extension)? Does the 3m rule apply, or is that only for rear extensions? (assuming all the other conditions are met)

One more thing, according to building regs there is no longer a definition of a conservatory (it was apparently removed from the 2010 document) - so what exactly constitutes a conservatory? I know there are some guidance notes, but are they legally binding, or just a guidance?


Basically, what I'd like to do is build a single-storey conservatory/home workshop/lean-to/whatever that would be called from the planning/building regs perspective to the side of the house. The house is an end of terrace, roughly 4.4m wide, 6.4m long (on the outside). The lean-to would start around the middle of the side elevation and continue further than the rear elevation by about 1.5m, bringing it to the total size of 2.2m width and 5m length.

It will be used as a home workshop/sun room/shed/bike storage - that kind of thing. So not a formal part of the dwelling as such, therefore not needing to be done to the same specs as the rest of the house. It will have either an external-quality door leading to it from the house, or no entry directly from the house at all (just doors from the outside) - is that permitted? The idea is to put the connecting door in at a later date, not initially...

It'll have separate heating (solid fuel stove - or none at all to start with), electricity won't need to be provided either as we'll just plug tools into an external socket nearby as and when needed.

As class A, such an extension would be permitted development. However, if the 'workshop' was to be a stand-alone outbuilding on the same site, it would have to go through as class E, and therefore would need planning permission according to the Welsh rule for class E that the structure within 2 metres of the house needs to be up to 1.5m high only ('Any part of the development within 2 metres of the house cannot exceed a height of 1.5 metres'):
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/outbuildings
So it makes more sense to build it as class A perhaps and be exempt?

If possible, I'd like to avoid having to go through building regs that would apply to a 'normal' class A extension (we'll build it ourselves and we will make it safe, insulated and all - just want to avoid the complications and extra cost). As those don't apply to conservatories, can this project be done as a conservatory? It won't be all glass - there will be a half-glazed door and a sizeable window round the front (that side won't be visible from the street because it will be behind the fence), a further big frosted window round the (neighbour) side (completely obscured by their fence/hedge/back of their shed), and double, fully glazed patio doors round the back. The roof will be steel box profile roof sheets (not see-through, fireproof). Can this still be classed as a conservatory? If not, why not and what is it then?


I'm not in a conservation/national park etc area and I will get in touch with my local planning office about this - but before I do that I just would like to wrap my head around all the options and intricacies! Plus there is now a brand new £50 charge for enquiries whether I need planning permission (again - in Wales), so I'd like to come into this armed with all the knowledge I can muster before I pay!

Sorry for the long post and hijacking the thread, but I would really appreciate some insight (pretty please, planning_officer! )

System

there is a specific definition of what a "conservatory" is - I can't remember off the top of my head but there are percentages of glass/wall and glass/roof areas…
so with a solid roof you are not building a conservatory…

enion

Well, the problem is that the definition was effectively removed, so doesn't seem to exist any more...

From guidance note on the subject of what a conservatory is (again, this is for Wales specifically, I don't know about England) from Local Authority Building Control in England and Wales:

"The introduction of the new Part L has caused Building Control Bodies and industry difficulties in deciding what constitutes a conservatory in order to be exempt from making a Building Regulations application. The definition of a conservatory previously contained in AD L1B of the April 2006 edition is no longer included in the 2010 Approved Document."

"Legislation and guidance on this subject leaves room for interpretation, hence a potential for variance in application between local authorities around the country can arise."

That's why I'm asking. Because if it's not a conservatory, and not a 'proper' extension, and not an outbuilding, and not a porch, then what exactly is it? :huh:

DRP

enion wrote: »

Well, the problem is that the definition was effectively removed, so doesn't seem to exist any more...

From guidance note on the subject of what a conservatory is (again, this is for Wales specifically, I don't know about England) from Local Authority Building Control in England and Wales:

"The introduction of the new Part L has caused Building Control Bodies and industry difficulties in deciding what constitutes a conservatory in order to be exempt from making a Building Regulations application. The definition of a conservatory previously contained in AD L1B of the April 2006 edition is no longer included in the 2010 Approved Document."

"Legislation and guidance on this subject leaves room for interpretation, hence a potential for variance in application between local authorities around the country can arise."

That's why I'm asking. Because if it's not a conservatory, and not a 'proper' extension, and not an outbuilding, and not a porch, then what exactly is it? :huh:

we had a similar problem when our builder offered to make our drafty conservatory more livable - what exactly would it become if you added walls and a roof? we didn't know, he didn't know and more importantly the mortgage co and potential future buyers wouldn't know... in the end we didnt bother due to the risks and cost...

System

I would guess that no matter what it would still require some form of glazed roof - And I'd reckon that no matter what the regs say, your average building control man will be able to give you the definition (and it's likely to be the same as it was before!)

It is likely to be described as an unheated space - the best advice would be to phone up building control, describe what you want to do and they will advise the best way forward… it's basically an attached workshop isn't it - but they will be concerned with you stoping ventilation to the existing house, creating an internal room for fire escape (if you are covering an external door) and adversely impacting the energy performance of the existing house… if you say it will be thermally separated and not tied into your house heating system then usually it's fine