considering wood burner option for heating/water - Your thoughts

Hoof_Hearted

Running a wood burner isn't cheap unless you can source the wood cheaply, but they are lovely. We love ours and it isn't too much bother to run as the wood burns down to next to nothing. It does give us independence from the grid if ever the power drops out.

captainhindsight_2

Davesnave wrote: »

The income comes over 7 years, however, and so far I've not seen a capital cost that would be completely paid off by the RHI, but maybe I'm choosing expensive gear.

I know chip is cheap, but it may not be practical for many, and I thought bagged pellets worked out about the same as mains gas. By all means correct me if I'm wrong

I don't think any of us can accurately predict fuel prices in the future, beyond saying that they'll be higher than now.

At present, I'm still swaying between installing a new oil system with thermal panel back up + woodburner, or going pellet boiler + woodburner, but by that route I can't afford the panels for summer hot water.

Finally, is having your own forest really 'cheap' as stated above, given the capital cost of buying it and the machinery needed to extract the wood?

It sound like you have had expensive quotes, RHI should pay off the capital costs of the boiler within about 5 years then add the fuel savings the payback is even quicker.

What have you been quoted and what kit?

Yes bagged pellets are about the same as gas, but if you can take large deliveries it can be considerably cheaper.

I agree no one can predict future fuel prices, but looking at previous data the % price increase in wood chip or pellets is much less than the % price increSes for any other fuel meaning the gap wides as time goes on and the market is becoming more and more competitive keeping prices down.

Davesnave

captainhindsight wrote: »

What have you been quoted and what kit?

I'd like to tell you, but BT has decided not to supply me with any email service today and one quote is still to come in.

When I have the quotes to hand, I'll come back.

Basically, these were quotes for ETA, Effecta and Froling boilers with around 15kWh loading + tank and pipework to same.

Robwiz

I did a lot of work looking into installing a pellet boiler that would be eligible for RHI around this time last year. The numbers stack up very well for the installers but the purchaser takes on significant risks – the system achieving claimed efficiencies, system reliability and maintenance costs, fuel price changes, to name a few.

Most installers 'cheat' by quoting favourable pellet prices (i.e. understating) whilst overstating the cost of the alternative fuel (oil or gas). They don't take into account either the cost of borrowing the capital or the loss of income from savings.

In my opinion, a much better investment would be to reduce your home's heat demand with either external or internal wall insulation. A well-insulated home barely needs central heating – a few electric storage heaters on Economy 7 plus a wood burning stove in the main living area would suffice and the payback would come through lower energy costs.

captainhindsight_2

Robwiz wrote: »

I did a lot of work looking into installing a pellet boiler that would be eligible for RHI around this time last year. The numbers stack up very well for the installers but the purchaser takes on significant risks – the system achieving claimed efficiencies, system reliability and maintenance costs, fuel price changes, to name a few.

Most installers 'cheat' by quoting favourable pellet prices (i.e. understating) whilst overstating the cost of the alternative fuel (oil or gas). They don't take into account either the cost of borrowing the capital or the loss of income from savings.

In my opinion, a much better investment would be to reduce your home's heat demand with either external or internal wall insulation. A well-insulated home barely needs central heating – a few electric storage heaters on Economy 7 plus a wood burning stove in the main living area would suffice and the payback would come through lower energy costs.

Those risks you mention are the same for any heating system you can buy whether electric oil or gas....

Most installers don't do what you said because if they did they would be in breach of mcs consumer protection rules.

Yea the beat thing to do is insulation. But your second piece of advice is terrible never ever have electric storage heaters if there is a viable option.

In short the number stack up great for wood pellet boilers if you use a good installer

Smiley_Dan

captainhindsight wrote: »

Those risks you mention are the same for any heating system you can buy whether electric oil or gas....

They aren't the same risks, because of the restrictions of the RHI you have to use specific suppliers. You cannot trust Government bodies to regulate such companies (so, so many examples) so you are bearing *some* risk here.

This is why it has always been a no-go for us.

Yea the beat thing to do is insulation. But your second piece of advice is terrible never ever have electric storage heaters if there is a viable option.

Electrical resistance heating is perfectly viable for a *highly* insulated and air tight home. It has the advantage of being very cheap to install and maintain.

Insulation is the best long term answer.

Robwiz

Smiley_Dan wrote: »

They aren't the same risks, because of the restrictions of the RHI you have to use specific suppliers. You cannot trust Government bodies to regulate such companies (so, so many examples) so you are bearing *some* risk here.

This is why it has always been a no-go for us.



Electrical resistance heating is perfectly viable for a *highly* insulated and air tight home. It has the advantage of being very cheap to install and maintain.

Insulation is the best long term answer.

Thank you. Electric storage heaters – very low capital cost, zero maintenance and totally reliable. Night time Economy 7 at 5.4p per kWh at 100% efficiency. No risk of wasting pellets due to damp or poor quality. And if you're concerned about carbon emissions, overnight electricity is by nuclear and wind turbines.

A._Badger

Robwiz wrote: »

Thank you. Electric storage heaters – very low capital cost, zero maintenance and totally reliable. Night time Economy 7 at 5.4p per kWh at 100% efficiency. No risk of wasting pellets due to damp or poor quality. And if you're concerned about carbon emissions, overnight electricity is by nuclear and wind turbines.

Not when the wind isn't blowing it isn't - notably during periods of high pressure when the temperature is at its coldest. That's when the oil, coal and gas plants prove how essential they are.

If some energy analysts are right, we might well be finding out how unreliable electricity supplies are this coming winter.

Having suffered with storage radiators in the past, I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

Meanwhile, anyone seriously thinking about installing any energy system dependent on government bribes to make it cost-effective should think long and hard about how fickle governments can be.

Smiley_Dan

All the more reason to use as little energy as possible. Insulate, insulate, insulate. It's the best long term solution (albeit at a high capital cost).

Chimney_Sweep_3

You have to be dedicated to run a water heating stove with wood, do not buy kiln dried wood its too expensive just buy it a year earlier, smokeless coal is generally easier to run a water heating stove with but if you have a stainless liner dont expect much more than 5 years life from it.