Paid for parking but POLA appeal refused.

gallonofmagnet

Hi, I received a PCN from Excel parking services 29/04/14, nearly 2 month after the date of the alleged contravention on 28/02/14 of not buying a valid ticket when I had in fact bought a ticket. The problem was I hadn't entered the registration number into the machine as it would accept the correct number when I tried to enter it, ie.. the machine was faulty.

This has been explained to excel who offered to reduce the PCN to £10.00. I felt this was still to much and asked them to cancel this cost also. Their response was no we won't. The full charge will be reinstated and and if you don't like it here's your POLA code. I have appealed to POPLA on the following points:

• Vehicle was parked correctly in a marked bay.
• Correct amount of money - £1.20 - was inserted into the provided payment machine to cover the estimated amount of time parking would be required.
• Several attempts were made to input the full registration as requested. However on every attempt the Alphabetical keys refused to accept the entry.
•The machine at this point requires an entry to proceed and the closest representation the provided machine would accept was 10.
• Our definition of a valid ticket is one which carries the correct charge for the period for which the parking space will be required and then clearly displayed on the relevant vehicle.
• Signage provided by Excel states "PURCHASE VALID TICKET & DISPLAY INSIDE FRONT WINDSCREEN WITH TIME AND DATE VISIBLE". No mention of the requirement for the registration number is made therefore we must assume that our definition is correct and acceptable to Excel making our ticket valid.
• The terms and conditions boards were read further and at no point do they cover in any greater depth what constitutes a valid ticket.
• The telephone number to report the problem was noted. However no phone is provided by Excel, and no alternative was available at the time of the fault occurrence. It was therefore not possible to contact them regarding the fault.
• The fault was highlighted to Excel at a later point in time, who then agreed the correct payment had been made for the duration of parking and offered to withdraw the higher Parking Charge.

• The car park in question is a pay and display facility and even though there was a misunderstanding as to what constitutes a valid ticket, the loss incurred by the operator is a matter of the time spent in the car park without making the relevant payment. This is a quantifiable loss as can be seen on the sign which displays the actual normal parking fee. In this case the correct amount - £1.20 - was paid at the time it was requested to Excel Parking Services via their own supplied Pay and Display machine. Therefore the amount outstanding to be paid in this instance is £0.00. Any greater amount MUST be deemed to be a penalty, which of course is non compliant to the BPA Code of Practice itself which states that the use of fine or penalty may not be used.

They have now refused my appeal and I don't know what action take next???? CAN ANYONE HELP????? PLEASE!

bazster

Bit of a dogs breakfast of a PoPLA appeal. PoPLA is a kangaroo court and doesn't listen to trivial irrelevancies like whether you actually paid!

Excel rarely does court cases and is even less likely to do so where the motorist actually paid so there can be no loss. Ignore them from now on.

Redx

if POPLA denied your appeal, there is little else you can do unless popla have failed in some manner that can be appealed to the lead adjudicator

the correct legal appeal points should have been

not a gpeol
no contract
bad or incorrect signage

nearly all popla appeals win on one of those 3 points

in general , you cannot appeal a popla appeal except in extreme circumstances

so I am not sure what you expect from us now if you didnt use the advice in the NEWBIES sticky thread when you made your appeals ?

nigelbb

For education purposes please could you post up your appeal & the POPLA adjudication?

nigelbb

OP did you receive the evidence pack from Excel in good time to rebut any of their claims before the POPLA adjudication?

gallonofmagnet

Is it worth stressing the point I wont be paying to the company? I have seen template letters requesting they prove that the pre estimate of loss and informing them that you refuse to pay the fine.

gallonofmagnet

The Appellant appealed against liability for the parking charge. The Assessor considered the evidence of
both parties and determined that the appeal be refused. The Assessor’s reasons are as set out.

In order to avoid any further action by the operator, payment of the £100 parking charge should be made
within 14 days.

Details of how to pay will appear on previous correspondence from the operator.

Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination ********** who was the motorist at the time of the alleged breach.

On 29 April 2014, the motorist was issued with a parking charge notice for breaching the terms and conditions of
the parking site.

It is the operator’s case that the motorist did not display a valid ticket despite clear signage at the site to indicate
that this was necessary to do so. There is photographic evidence to support that there was adequate signage
at the site to inform motorists of the parking terms and conditions. There is also evidence from the operator’s
automatic number plate recognition system which shows the motorist’s vehicle, registration number **10***,
entered the site at 15:59 and exited at 16:58, a total stay of 59 minutes. Further evidence from the operator’s
Pay and Display database shows that the same vehicle was not registered to have purchased a ticket.

It is the motorist’s case that the appropriate fee was paid for parking. However, due to problems with the ticket
machine the full vehicle registration number could not be entered. After appealing to the operator, the parking
charge amount was reduced to £10.00. However this offer was not utilised by the motorist and the appeal to
POPLA was put forward.

In consideration of the evidence before me, I find that there is clear evidence which shows that the motorist’s
vehicle was not registered at to have entered the full and correct vehicle registration number upon purchasing
a ticket from the ticket machine.

The operator has also submitted evidence from their Pay and Display database which shows that tickets were
purchased by other motorists using the ticket machine at the same time as the motorist used the site. In
addition the ticket machine clearly instructed motorists to “enter full registration number” upon purchasing a ticket.
However, this was not done by the motorist. Therefore the motorist was in breach of the parking terms and conditions.

There was clear and adequate signage at the parking site informing motorists of the parking terms and conditions.
If the parking terms and conditions could not be complied with, I find that the motorist should have refrained from
parking at the site. When parking on private land, it is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that they comply
with all terms and conditions of parking.

Redx

gallonofmagnet wrote: »

Is it worth stressing the point I wont be paying to the company? I have seen template letters requesting they prove that the pre estimate of loss and informing them that you refuse to pay the fine.

no, because that could be determined by a judge in an MCOL so is beyond your control and you are wayyyyyyy beyond that soft appeal template now

if they issued an MCOL, won , the judge issues a judgement and you do not pay, a CCJ could result and then enforcement, so saying you are not paying has no real relevance if a judge decides to the contrary and enforcement occurs

your personal feelings have nothing to do with it, nor your decision not to pay

I would suggest you answer the questions posed by nigelbb as they may be relevant in trying to obtain an appeal to the lead popla adjudicator if something was missed in this legal process

ie:- your popla appeal so we can see if the usual points of not a gpeol, no contract and poor signage were entered

also the excel evidence pack to see if you could have rebutted the pack in time and what it contained and when it was submitted (if at all)

gallonofmagnet

Got the evidence pack on 30 June for appeal on 08 July. Is that enough time? Obviuosly not if I didn't win! :rotfl:

Coupon-mad

If you definitely had this point (below) with the word 'loss' in it then I would be emailing POPLA's Service Manager to point out the Assessor has missed your assertion that it was not a GPEOL in your final paragraph which said:

'the loss incurred by the operator is a matter of the time spent in the car park without making the relevant payment. This is a quantifiable loss as can be seen on the sign which displays the actual normal parking fee. In this case the correct amount - £1.20 - was paid at the time it was requested to Excel Parking Services via their own supplied Pay and Display machine. Therefore the amount outstanding to be paid in this instance is £0.00. '

rreeve@popla.org.uk

Ask for the case to be reviewed because the question of no quantifiable loss was ignored.

nigelbb

For education purposes please could you post up your appeal?