Taking a Council to Small Claims Court

HappyMJ

Agreed with the wording. Your not taking council for an unpaid invoice. Your taking them to court for failing to issue a refund for a previous payment made which was demanded as it was unlawful, a mistake or for whatever reason. Maybe the wording is incorrect but essentially it shouldn't matter too much the civil court isn't as worried about small technicalities quite as much....they might not allow you to claim costs if the wording is incorrect or if you failed to follow the proper complaint procedures with the council but if the claim is still valid you'll still get your money back.. you do have to issue a letter before action telling the 3rd party they have so many days to pay and the event of non payment you will start court action.

The respondent is the full name of the council.

Videoman

Hi Everybody! ( This is a long one, sorry. )
Sorry that it has been a while but the reasons will be obvious.
Sooooooo!
Here is the story, to date.
Going back to pre June 2011, I run a stall on a council run market. BUYING of stalls ( businesses ) from another stall holder is not permitted under council rules. If a trader wants to finish trading/retire he cant sell his stall/business under council rules. The council notify ALL other stallholders as to the availability of the newly vacated stall. On a 'points system' another trader, who puts his name forward, will be allocated the stall. ....then.....
In early 2011 the councils' employee, The Town Centre Manager told stallholders that the old system ( as above ) would be changed as from June 2011 and stallholders COULD then BUY a business/stall location off a fellow trader. ( I have all literature given to traders about this through the FOI Act ). The literature also stated that the fee that the Council would charge for this arrangement is to be 10x the weekly stall rent, in my case over £800.This amount was paid to the Council ( receipted ) by myself and of course the previous 'owner' of the stall wanted payment for his business/good will. This amount was £3000........... we moved stall location and all was hunky dory!
Fast Forward to April 2014......
We had a potential buyer for our stall. I contacted the council to see how much the council fee was now.
A letter from the council stated that the 'new' system that was implemented in June 2011 was never ratified at full council meeting and thus was never a 'rule'. Therefore, the original system was STILL in place and that I was UNABLE to sell the business that the council had allowed me to purchase 3 yrs ago.... and not only that, but the £800 that they took from me, should never have been taken in the first place because the rule was never on the books! But they still kept my money! ..... Hence my threat of County Court Action to retrieve the 800 sheckles and the 3 grand that I forked out for the business which I now cannot sell-on!! My reasoning is this... if the council had NOT given me permission to buy the stall ( by taking my £800 ) I would never have been 3 grand out of pocket!
.... and just to muddy the waters..... IF the original system had been in place in June 2011, I would have probably got the newly vacated stall because of the point system for FREE anyway because we are such a long-standing trader!!
Sooooo.... In May, being as I could not now sell my stall, I refused to pay the weekly stall rent, in lieu of the £800 that I claimed the council owed me because the new system never existed! The council issued me with a warning that failure to pay the rent would result in suspension from the market. The council did NOT accept that they owed me anything at all, and the Market Manager told me that even if they did owe me money, I could not right-off one against the other because they were for two different council department accounts. So, I failed ( refused ) to pay the rent, they sent me a letter telling me that I could not trade from the next saturday. I was without a stall position and a business. We have not traded on a Saturday since.
.....THIS WEEK......
I receive a letter from the council stating that they have realised that the selling of stalls was not allowed and that all traders who paid the allocated fee to the council ( £800 in my case ) would receive this amount back, plus interest. In the letter the Market Manager stated that any stall-rent that is still outstanding would be taken from this amount before being sent to me!!!
Now then! Obviously, some 10 weeks ago, IF the Markets Manager had reasoned that she could have taken one off the other, I would have still been able to earn a living on the busiest day of the working week! But that did not happen ( even though that is what is happening now ). I was suspended, even though , in essence, I owed nothing at all being as my stall rents were about £500 in arrears!
Therefore my Learned Friends... how about this one to get your brain-box a-whirrrrring?
What should I do next? My last letter to the CEO stated that if I did not receive my £800 plus £3000 plus interest by 8th Aug I would be serving notice on the council.....
The Market Manager letter asks me to reply ASAP. She can wait until I have read your posts, my friends.
Tasty, eh? :-) lol
Many Thanks.

wealdroam

Videoman wrote: »

What should I do next?

Seek proper legal advice.

As this is a business relationship, there is no consumer rights issue here.

Videoman

Thank you Weald. The prob I have with 'legal people' , due to recent experience, is that they aint all that they are cracked up to be! 'king Rubbish is what I have witnessed! :-(
And of course, this area would be specialised........

lincroft1710

You chose to pay £3K for the goodwill, the council did not force or order you to make this payment. No guarantee that you would ever recoup this if you chose to sell the business on.

You also chose not to pay your stall rent. The council were not in the wrong in stopping you trading. You effectively "took the law into your own hands" and prematurely decided you were owed £800.

However I am not an expert in these matters, the above being opinion only. If you are unwilling to pay for proper legal advice, then you have to weigh up the financial cost if you lose and how sound you believe your case is.

zax47

Your major mistake was stopping paying the rent - this gives them leverage to use against you in court. Irrespective of the other issue you willfully broke the terms of your contract with them. Weakens your case massively IMO.

Pollycat

zax47 wrote: »

Your major mistake was stopping paying the rent - this gives them leverage to use against you in court. Irrespective of the other issue you willfully broke the terms of your contract with them. Weakens your case massively IMO.

I agree.

I think you've mishandled this altogether - including sending the Council an invoice in the first instance when that clearly was the wrong way to tell them you believe they owe you money.

TBH, if your dealings with the council are anything like the misinformation you've provided on this thread, it's no wonder you are in the position you are in.
Why didn't you explain the circumstances straight away (as you have now done in reply #23) instead of beating about the bushes for more than 3 weeks?

Have you ever tried to put your case forward to the council in a calm, comprehensible manner?