New parking regulations at home...

Daniel_san

Thanks CM, I note your edit after my initial "thank you" click.

First, quick draft before chill and sleep!

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 26th September 2017.
Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

As proceedings have not been issued, if your client intends to pursue the matter further they are on notice that since 01 October 2017 a protocol is applicable. Your letter lacks specificity and therefore this letter should be treated as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Further, I trust that no proceedings will be issued without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court when costs come to be considered.


This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. Quite frankly, I find it astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' just days before the pre-action Protocol changes.


Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, provide a copy of that contract bearing my signature. Or is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
6. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1
7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
9. Details of the additions to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.


I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as [date or month/year of first request] yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.


Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully

[Deleted User]

One typo - it should say "a new protocol is applicable" I have amended my wording.

Your additions may well be fine (I'm not in the business of second-guessing well researched matters) but personally I'd go for shorter letters where possible - much more effective when asking a DJ to read them in court mid hearing.

The defendant knows full well what the protocol says and what documents they ought to provide.

Castle

Johnersh wrote: »

The defendant knows full well what the protocol says and what documents they ought to provide.

Don't you mean "claimant".:)

[Deleted User]

Sorry, yes! Who was it that said men shouldn't try and multi-task?

Loadsofchildren123

Daniel_san wrote: »

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 26th September 2017.
Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

As proceedings have not been issued, if your client intends to pursue the matter further they are on notice Your client must know that since on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.


Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat and therefore[/s[ this letter should be treated as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue Further, I trust that no proceedings will be issued without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.


This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and with which your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. Quite frankly, I find It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' just days in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new before the pre-action Protocol changes.


Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, provide a copy of that contract bearing my signature. Or is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
6. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1
7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
9. Details of the additions to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.


I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as COLOR=red]date or month/year of first request[/COLOR yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court. [has it? this is taken from a precedent, check that all of it applies to you]


Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully

I've played around with it to adapt it now that the new Protocol is in force.

Loadsofchildren123

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2). Please treat and therefore this letter should be treated as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue Further, I trust that no proceedings will be issued without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

Loadsofchildren123

your items 1-9 need to be adapted so that they include anything required by para 3.1 of the new protocol. You can find them in this link:
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf

Daniel_san

Legend! Thank you LOC. I'm stuck in the office all day but will make the amendments and double check 1-9 & 3.1 when I'm home this evening.

Daniel_san

Gladstones Solicitors
The Terrace
High Leigh Park Golf Club
Warrington
Cheshire
WA16 6AA

3rd October 2017

Your Ref:xxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of 26th September 2017.
Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

Your client must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 “establishing yourself as the creditor”
8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form


If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.


Yours faithfully


Also......I would appreciate any advice on the following:

Can I add the below? Now? If so, where should I insert it please? Or save for later?

1: Additionally, I refer to further PCN’s listed below:
PMxxxxxx – for a vehicle parked in my allocated parking space, which is outlined on my property plans and forms part of my demised premises. Your client provides photographic evidence which could clearly only be obtained from within the bounds of my property, and is therefore an act of trespass.
PMxxxxxxx & PMxxxxxxxxx – both pertaining to a vehicle parked in my allocated space, for which your client has affixed a parking charge notice to the windscreen on both occasions, which again could only be possible from within the bounds of my property. These, combined with the above, amount to three torts of trespass, and I reserve the right to pursue this matter in court, either as a separate claim, or as a counterclaim to any action your client brings.

2:I also have in my mind the whole no contract with landowner, no authority to operate, no authority to pursue charges, breach of KADOE, breach of DPA (as this all means no reasonable cause request for RKD) – but I’m thinking this isn’t the time for this?

3:Lastly, should I send a copy of the LBC and the reply I send, to the MA, just so they are informed? If so, should I do it via an email with a simple note of the situation, or should I go the full monty letter to them using LOC’s “To the MC Harold Wood Management Limited” template, which I have had saved for some time now and just need to adapt it to suit?

As always, I am extremely grateful for everyone's assistance, thank you!

DoaM

I can't comment as yet on your addendum, but I'd suggest removing the PCN references. (Unless you don't mind risking your forum identity being linked to your real identity, or those are made-up numbers ... parking company stooges do trawl this forum).