PCN - Parking Eye - Cambridge - Beehive Centre

Calhoon_2

Hi, firstly thanks for any help I may receive.

The wife has received a PCN from Parking Eye for parking for 5hrs 12mins in a 3 hour stay car park. The car park is part of a retail park.

During her time there she made purchases from Asda, Costa Coffee & Hobby Craft, but paid cash and has no receipts. She spent the rest of her time browsing other stores in the park.

According to the PCN we have until the 10th July to pay the £50 charge until that is upped to £85.

I've read the Newbie Sticky on this forum and have found the template letter for appeal from Coupon-mad.

My question really is, will that template letter help in the situation we have, 5hrs and 12mins in a 3 hour stay car park that is signposted, and no receipts for proofs of purchase..??

Once again many thanks for any help given.

Redx

of course it will , but maybe not with PE unless you provide receipts worth more than £30

the punishment doesnt fit the "crime" , so she overstayed in a free car park , doesnt warrant the charges, plus the BEAVIS case is going to the court of appeal anyway but he didnt use popla (unfortunately)

the template appeal points are still valid for popla as are the links in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread

Coupon-mad

You'll win at POPLA in the end now you are here - we always do!

Calhoon_2

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You'll win at POPLA in the end now you are here - we always do!

Coupon-Mad, thanks for replying buddy, appreciate the help already. :j
Just so I do things in the correct order, from what I've read it looks like I should first send a copy of your template letter to Parking Eye's Appeal address?
Should this be sent Signed For post?
Then I should receive a reply from Parking Eye.
If they haven't waived the PCN, it is at that point that I use the POPLA route right?

Sorry for checking through it all, but you understand I just don't want to fluff up the process in anyway.

Thanks once again

Coupon-mad

That's right but save the stamp and submit a shortened version of the template online to PE (to fit it in their online appeals box, get rid of some of the blurb about case law as they've seen it before!). And take a screen shot before submitting it as you don't get an email showing you what you sent. NEVER send anything to a PPC signed-for...I think you can work out why not!

BTW I am a female 'buddy'!

Redx

correct, except you send from the P.O. with free certificate of posting (not recorded) as mentioned above

you can appeal on their website if you wish, or do both

just make sure you appeal as RK and no mention of who the driver was, so no statements like "I only parked up because....."

if in doubt, use the template letter "as is"

grant_uk

Hi Calhoon

These companies are attempting to inflict unfair parking charges for overstays in free parks. Because they can't actually defend how they arrive at these charges, well presented POPLA appeals work.

They're not allowed to including day-to-day running costs in their justification. Indeed, they *must* demonstrate a correlation between the infringement of a parking rule with the money they are claiming in the form of a charge.

This is generally where they fail.

Their business model is to convince us that their charges are genuine and legally binding, so people unsurprisingly panic and pay up in the first instance. That's what they're counting on.

They also fail in other areas such as poor signage, failure to demonstrate that a genuine contract has been agreed with the driver and failure to keep their ANPR equipment properly calibrated.

These are all covered in the sticky threads at the top, plus a few more edge cases. I'm appealing a case at the moment and there is a discrepancy in the signage that I'll be bringing to POPLA's attention, for example.

So, please forget any notion that the parking charge you've been presented with is reasonable and valid. It's worth standing up to these companies and making them jump through hoops, right up to the point where their ridiculous speculative invoices are thrown out.

Calhoon_2

Coupon-mad wrote: »

That's right but save the stamp and submit a shortened version of the template online to PE (to fit it in their online appeals box, get rid of some of the blurb about case law as they've seen it before!). And take a screen shot before submitting it as you don't get an email showing you what you sent. NEVER send anything to a PPC signed-for...I think you can work out why not!

BTW I am a female 'buddy'!

Coupon-Mad, thanks once again for that response, and no problem, I have female buddies too..Loool

Just wondering if you wouldn't mind helping me that little bit further. I'm a bit of a newbie to this kind of thing and to be honest am dead nervous about fluffing this appeal up.

There's various sections in your template that mention case law so I don't want to edit the wrong bits out, is there any chance you could show me what I need to remove.

For ease of cutting and pasting I've included your template in full below, Many thanks once again, you've been excellent already :

TEMPLATE LETTER
I have received your parking 'invoice' impersonating a parking ticket. I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

A) The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in your own right.
C) Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract formed. This is a non-negotiated and totally unexpected third party 'charge' foisted upon legitimate motorists who are not your customers and are not parties of equal bargaining power. Therefore ALL terms are required to be so prominent and the risk of a charge so transparent that the information in its entirety must have been seen/accepted by the driver. No reasonable person would have accepted such onerous parking terms and I contend the extortionate charge was not'drawn to his attention in the most explicit way' (Lord Denning, Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1971] 2 QB 163, Court of Appeal): 'The customer is bound by those terms as long as they are sufficiently brought to his notice beforehand, but not otherwise. In {ticket cases of former times} the issue...was regarded as an offer by the company. That theory was, of course, a fiction. No customer in a thousand ever read the conditions. In order to give sufficient notice, it would need to be printed in red ink with a red hand pointing to it - or something equally startling.'

As you have failed to create any enforceable contract I suggest that you cancel this unjustified 'ticket'. If not, under your Trade Body's current Code of Practice you must issue a rejection letter which, in order to answer my appeal, must include:

1. The legal basis of your charge, which is not clear (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
(i) if alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue?).
(ii) if alleging trespass, enclose evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.
(iii) if alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorised parking. I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal). Should you try to rely upon ParkingEye v Beavis & Wardley at independent appeal stage, I will of course point out that it was a flawed decision at small claim level so is not binding, and Mr Beavis is continuing his defence to the Court of Appeal. There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.

2. Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site and to bring a claim in your own right for this particular contravention. If you are not the landowner, I will need to see a copy of your contract, showing the restrictions, the charges, the dates and terms of business including any payments between yourself and your client and the definition of your status as agents or contractors and your assigned rights (if any). Such detail is necessary for me to make an informed decision. Failure to divulge your landowner contract (or heavily redacting it) will be deemed as withholding pertinent information and, of course, I will require it to be shown at independent appeal stage anyway. A witness statement will not suffice, nor a site agreement with a managing agent or other party who is not the landowner.

3. Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves. Consideration from both sides is required for a contract.

4. A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.

5. The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS. This must not be withheld or delayed, which would be a breach of the Code of Practice.

If you fail to simply cancel the charge or supply the means to independent appeal in your first reply you will also be reported to your applicable ATA and the DVLA. A certificate of posting will be obtained for all written communications for this appeal and complaint and I intend to claim my costs when I prevail.

Coupon-mad

I would nip this bit out from point C:

' This is a non-negotiated and totally unexpected third party 'charge' foisted upon legitimate motorists who are not your customers and are not parties of equal bargaining power. Therefore ALL terms are required to be so prominent and the risk of a charge so transparent that the information in its entirety must have been seen/accepted by the driver. No reasonable person would have accepted such onerous parking terms and I contend the extortionate charge was not'drawn to his attention in the most explicit way' (Lord Denning, Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1971] 2 QB 163, Court of Appeal): 'The customer is bound by those terms as long as they are sufficiently brought to his notice beforehand, but not otherwise. In {ticket cases of former times} the issue...was regarded as an offer by the company. That theory was, of course, a fiction. No customer in a thousand ever read the conditions. In order to give sufficient notice, it would need to be printed in red ink with a red hand pointing to it - or something equally startling.'

Then, only because PE have seen it before so it's not needed for them every time, get rid of this too if you need to fit it in the online appeals box:

'(i) if alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue?).
(ii) if alleging trespass, enclose evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.
(iii) if alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorised parking. I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal). '

Calhoon_2

Once again Coupon-Mad, you've been amazing, seriously, thanks for that. Also want to thank "grant_uk" and "RedX" for their input, it means a lot..:)

Just to help anyone else who may have the same problem I had, below is an shortened version of Coupon-Mad's template that you can post into Parking Eyes appeal box on their website.

Parking Eye only allow "3000 characters" in their appeal box, so I had to take out a lot of spaces, colons, and I even had to misspell a couple of words here and there such as "Yor" and "Genuin", but if you copy and paste the template below it should fit.

I'll keep you all posted on my progress and once again Thank You so much. :j xx


SHORTENED TEMPLATE

I have received your parking invoice impersonating a parking ticket.I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver,neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle.This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:
AThe amount is neither a genuin tariff/fee for parking,nor is it based upon any genuin pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
BYou are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in yor own right.
CYor signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties,so there was no contract formed.
As you have failed to create any enforceable contract I suggest that you cancel this unjustified ticket.If not,under your Trade Bodys current Code of Practice you must issue a rejection letter which,in order to answer my appeal,must include:
1The legal basis of your charge,which is not clear(ie breach,trespass or contractual fee).As keeper,I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
Should you try to rely upon ParkingEye v Beavis & Wardley at independent appeal stage,I will of course point out that it was a flawed decision at small claim level so is not binding,and Mr Beavis is continuing his defence to the Court of Appeal.There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.
2Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site and to bring a claim in your own right for this particular contravention.If you are not the landowner,I will need to see a copy of your contract,showing the restrictions,the charges,the dates and terms of business including any payments between yourself and your client and the definition of your status as agents or contractors and your assigned rights,if any.Such detail is necessary for me to make an informed decision.Failure to divulge your landowner contract,or heavily redacting it,will be deemed as withholding pertinent information and,of course,I will require it to be shown at independent appeal stage anyway.A witness statement will not suffice,nor a site agreement with a managing agent or other party who is not the landowner.
3Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver,and from yourselves.Consideration from both sides is required for a contract.
4A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time,taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.
5The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS.This must not be withheld or delayed,which would be a breach of the Code of Practice.
If you fail to simply cancel the charge or supply the means to independent appeal in your first reply you will also be reported to your applicable ATA and the DVLA.A certificate of posting will be obtained for all written communications for this appeal and complaint and I intend to claim my costs when I prevail.

red_baron_2

thank you but I had to shorten it a bit more.
red baron