My right to a refund?

djpleasure

I am just trying to gather some advice. I have contacted CAB consumer support in relation to reporting to Trading standards etc, but just want to get a little more savvy. Sorry abut the length but wanted to include as much detail as possible.


I purchased a car bass amplifier April 2014, was not actually installed until end of may as had to await other parts as well as speaker enclosure. I also purchased other goods, 4 door speakers, failed after two weeks, I took this on the chin, but the amplifier not only was it the last straw, it cost considerably more at £310.99

A couple of weeks after install the amplifier failed, (protection light constantly on, no sound output).

I messaged the seller who in turn asked me to return the amplifier, to which I did.

As soon as they received the amplifier, they quoted their returns guy will look at it, then claimed fault caused by a bad Earth on my install.

I stated that it should be a dedicated engineer/manufacturer that diagnoses the fault, to which the response was, as we import from America, we become the manufacturer.

Anyway adamant my install was at fault, then started clutching at straws asking, what type of enclosure are my speakers mounted? was the enclosure ported or un-ported, totally irrelevant, also asked for a picture of earth connection and resistance, I provided, resistance was 0.2 which is a great earth. Then asking was amplifier mounted to boot or enclosure.

Quoted going to have sent to a certified repair center, not sure such a certified center exists for the brand in question, not in the UK anyway.

So in a nutshell, without even opening the amplifier up or having it diagnosed, blame was put straight on me.

Next I get a response back

"Your amplifiers has suffered vibration damage, meaning the board is cracked. This is not a warranty claim as the board is physically damaged due to Vibration."
Its not as expensive as you think suprisingly and we do not add anything on to the price so I am happy to send this for you. We have to cover all basis, just like any manufacture, they cover all basis and get to the bottom of everything.

The point on your amplifier is.

High resistance on earth
Incorrectly set up - Read the manual
Vibration damage.

The cost on getting the amplifier repaired and sent back to you would be -

Will be £22.50 to inspect / repair / test plus £ 3.18 for the part. Return courier £10.50 + £5.00 from us to you.

Aside from the fact that they tried pulling a fast one blaming my Earth, they admitted that they laid blame before having the amplifier diagnosed. the fact this amplifier is 2200 watts rms, it should be able to withstand a considerable amount of vibration. example, even on a low volume, my wing mirrors, rear view mirror, boot door, seats all vibrate quite severely, running 2 x 1100 watt rms subwoofers.

next message I got was:

We have had the amplifier inspected and due to the damage on the amplifier, as a good will gesture, we have agreed to cover the repair costs on the amplifier. We are hoping this will be repaired as fast as possible and sent across back to you. This will be covered at our cost on the amplifier.

As far as I am concerned, the amplifier was never fit for purpose if it could not withstand vibration, for obvious reasons I would not want it repaired and sent back, A) because I do not want to have future dealings with this untrustworthy company, How long until it vibrates to the point of cracking circuit board again, therefore needing more repair and hassle.

CAB quoted me to send letter of complaint to company (DONE) thereafter letter of intent for court (DONE) have about 10 days before I proceed further.

I stated clearly that I will refuse delivery of the amplifier, as they are adamant they are going to repair and send back.

I quoted to them:

My rights against this trader would be governed by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (As amended), which states all goods supplied by a trader to a consumer must be of a ‘satisfactory quality’ which means the goods should be free from faults, last a reasonable time, be fit for the purpose they were made for, and should not be unsafe. To clarify, the law suggests that any faults which occur within the first 6 months are assumed to have been present at the time of sale, and have only just become apparent.

Then quoted to me this

"DSR (Distance selling regulations) state that is a item is faulty/defective within 7 working days a customer is entitled to a full refund. If the item has been working for so long, i.e a 1 month, 2 months etc then the seller i.e Thompsons have the right to Repair the amplifier, which we are doing. We do not by Law have to refund you anything as the product has been working perfectly fine for 2 months - Your amplifier will be repaired to the best standards, bench tested and ensured that it will withstand any vibration damage. "

After a little research it appears this company have behaved like this in the past and blamed customers before diagnosis, claiming amplifiers/speakers warranties are questionable. There is no way on this earth I would trust any repair or anything they say. I do intend to take the matter to court

jacques_chirac

If you have been deemed to accept the goods (not defined in law but likely after 1 month +), then the retailer is able to offer a repair, refund or exchange at their discretion. In this case they have offered a repair, which fulfils their obligations under SOGA.

djpleasure

so what about it being Not fit for said purpose? the circuit board within the amplifier cannot withstand vibration, a repair will not remedy this, all they will do is repair the tracks on the board.

As you say, not defined by law, I can prove item was not installed until later. obligations, what about their obligations not to deceive the consumer, with false claims and underhand tactics.

frugal_mike

It would fulfil their obligations if it wasn't for the fact they want to charge OP for it. They need to cover all costs involved if the fault is inherent.

powerful_Rogue

frugal_mike wrote: »

It would fulfil their obligations if it wasn't for the fact they want to charge OP for it. They need to cover all costs involved if the fault is inherent.

They have agreed to cover all costs.

We have had the amplifier inspected and due to the damage on the amplifier, as a good will gesture, we have agreed to cover the repair costs on the amplifier. We are hoping this will be repaired as fast as possible and sent across back to you. This will be covered at our cost on the amplifier.

4743hudsonj

Out of interest what amp is it?

A) i might be able to point you in a better direction and i want to know what to avoid in future.

The problem with car audio is that 99% of the time, problems are caused by bad installation. Clearly that wasn't the issue here but some places get complacent and too easily ignore signs of a genuine claim.

arcon5

As above, they are entitled to offer a remedy, not necessarily a refund - they have fulfilled their obligations under SOGA and any court action will fail.

If it breaks several times and cannot be remedied effectively then this right may change - but as it is at the moment you would have no rights to a refund

djpleasure

It was a Lanzar OPTI2601D Class-D Digital MonoBlock Mono 2600W, speakers wired at 0.5ohm

The problem I have is I know the repair will fail, then I will have nothing but hassle with this company trying to remedy matter.

Takeaway_Addict

Why do you know the repair will fail? Unfortunately you will have to go along with it as they are not obliged to refund as has been mentioned.

djpleasure

I know it will fail as the circuit board is not designed to take vibration.

A proper repair would be a replacement circuit board with an upgraded thicker board, this would have to come from manufacturer and I am pretty sure such a board does not exist with them.

The price quoted for repair would indicate the breaks in circuit will just be jumped or soldered across. Well if being truthful the quote below would not cover any certified repair center in the UK.

Will be £22.50 to inspect / repair / test plus £ 3.18 for the part

They state

"Your amplifier will be repaired to the best standards, bench tested and ensured that it will withstand any vibration damage. "

There is no way the above could be done for anywhere close to that price. Vibration testing is a specialist area, requiring specialist equipment that most repair centers would not carry.

I intend to ask details of said repair center as well as a report. I think I will then get an independent engineer to examine the work done. I smell a big rat, anyone in the electronics industry will know where I am coming from. In my younger years I was a car audio repair engineer, even back then 1986-1988 the price above would not suffice.

DevCoder

You can ask for details of repair and a report but they are under no obligation to give you either.

You can then pursue your "independent engineer" for an expert report if you wish but not sure how any outcome of this will affect the requirement for the seller to repair,refund or replace.

Aslo not quite sure how you know the PCB is too thin, having done quite a bit of PCB work, its normally the way the PCB is mounted or installed that causes breakages. Sound waves themselves won't cause the tracks to lift or break, thats normally the vibration of the board because its not mounted with any absorbing materials to other solid surfaces. Also different materials will resonate at different frequencies which is why the absorption is key in applications like this.