Bluewater parking charge

Coupon-mad

yes I meant signage re BPA and not being a member, not logo

Nope it's not about that!

brunchbar12345

But they can't display signage claiming to be a member of the BPA if they are not? I found a website dated June this year saying they were no longer members, does that not count towards anything?

Dee140157

brunchbar12345

Hi guys,

I've read the other two IAS threads, and from that have gauged this? I'm unsure as to the height of lettering etc but can go back and measure. (there's a pic in the thread) I don't feel this is weighty enough though.

I appreciate your help, I suffer from alopecia and at the moment I'm just wanting to pay these a'holes...



I wish to appeal the PCN on the following grounds:

1. The sign states that “failure to comply with the terms and conditions will result in a £95 parking charge notice” (discounted to £57 if paid within 14 days). This implies that if the driver uses the land other than in accordance with the terms and conditions then they are subject to a fixed fee. According to Schedule 5 of the Code of Practice, this fee must then be based on a “genuine pre-estimate of loss”. In their reply to the initial appeal, the PCM Appeals Team state that “the driver ahd clearly entered into a contractual obligation”. In fact this is not the case - the only sign mentioning any restrictions/charge is an old BPA signs where PCM used to charge for 'breaches of contract' and they have not updated their signs at all. As such, they have not created a contractual fee situation in the car park so the driver has not entered into any contract to pay a 'contractual fee' to be allowed to park as an 'unauthorised' driver - in fact the sign disallows unauthorised parking.

2. The sign shows 'failure to comply' which is breach of contract model. It is my belief that PCM can either a) sue for trespass which they aren't, or demand I pay them the losses they made by the driver parking but not complying. It is also my belief that losses can only be claimed to restore what PCM lost, not a penalty/punishment for the "offence" hence PCM must put forward a Genuine Pre estimate of loss.

3. The Notice to Keeper does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4. Instead of *inviting* the keeper to pay the charges or name the driver as set out in paragraph 8(2)(e), the Notice to Keeper states that the keeper is *required* to do so. The Notice to Keeper does not specify that it is the driver who should pay the sum as required under paragraph 8(2)(b).

4. There were no signs at the entrance to the car park to indicate that the property was subject to parking restrictions despite there being many obvious places to put such signage at the entrance, again in violation of Schedule 1.

5. The existing sign misleadingly carries the BPA logo.
There is no large “P” symbol on the sign.

6. At no point in the sign do Parking Control Management identify themselves as “the Creditor”. The sign neither communicates that the driver is entering into a contract nor committing trespass.

7. At no point have Parking Control Management provided any evidence that they have the permission of the land owner to provide the parking scheme.

brunchbar12345

Could someone also link the thread where 'Baps' lost an IAS PCM appeal? I have searched but can't find it. Thanks a lot

Dee140157

Do you mean the Daps one?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5010924

Coupon-mad

Why not just search keywords 'IAS' or 'PCM'? Searching a forum is a must, not asking for links - you will miss soooo much if you ask for links of odd cases. You need to read more than just Daps' losing version, and several more than the couple I mentioned off the top of my head, above. That's what the 'search this forum' heading is for, (on the right next to 'forum tools' in the line above the sticky threads at the top of page one).

Read other IAS appeal suggested wording/advice, as discussed on several threads recently (only read results from this Summer as things have moved on recently). PLease don't copy one that looks like a POPLA appeal, and don't even read results talking about IAS appeals done months ago.

Then show us your draft and tell us what exhibits you intend to attach (if you don't know what exhibits are you won't have read enough IAS threads talking about how to word them more like claim defences). A good search and reading of recent threads will help no end. You must attach copies of everything - the signs and the Notice to Keeper with the words highlighted that you are objecting to. Are there no other flaws in the NTK?