POPLA appeal allowed

zipmonster

Hi everyone,

Just had my POPLA decision upheld against a PCN issued by Llawnroc parking services Ltd for a PCN issued when i was parked in the wrong parking bay in the underground car park where i live. I followed the advice in the Newbies thread, appealed to POPLA under GPEOL and the appeal was allowed in my favour. Thanks for all the help and advice posted. It was great to have the charge rescinded. Only another 2 PCNs to go with different firms!!

bod1467

Your original thread?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4980952

Or is that one of the other ones still to be resolved?

zipmonster

No,
i never posted about this one just followed the advice given and sent it off got the result back a few days ago when on holiday. A nice surprise:).

Umkomaas

zipmonster wrote: »

No,
i never posted about this one just followed the advice given and sent it off got the result back a few days ago when on holiday. A nice surprise:).

Is the one above, referenced by bod1467, still outstanding?

zipmonster

yes,

still waiting for contact from the company, nothing arrived so far.

zipmonster

Had a PCN issued on my windscreen at 02:31 by Llawnroc on 31/3/14 for Not parking in a designated area in the underground car park where i live. I have been waiting for the NTK with nothing coming in the post. Then today i recieved a letter from PCS (Parking collection services) which is a notice to the owner and i quote.

Notice to Owner.
We have obtained your details as you were the registered keeper/owner of the vehicle at the time of parking. A parking charge has been issued because your vehicle was involved in breaching the stated terms and conditions of parking, which were clearly displayed and agreed to by the driver when your vehicle was parked on private land managed by our client Llawnroc Parking Services Ltd.
Despite a Parking Charge having already been issued, and placed on the screen of your vehicle, or sent to you by post, we have not received payment from the driver. The opportunity to pay at the reduced amount has now passed and the full amount is now due.
Full payment must be made by the driver within 28 days of the date of this letter to avoid further action.

It seems to me Llawnroc have passed the ticket onto PCS without bothering to contact me first in the relevant timescales. Therefore, do i now treat this as the NTK and reset the timescales and start sending my first letter why i am not going to pay or do i just ignore it.

Regards

Redx

only a fool would ignore a pcn in england or wales

some companies pass the issues onto debt collectors, but you should appeal to the PPC using the template letter (and ignore the debt collectors) , if all done previously, write to the PPC and demand a popla code, then report to the BPA

all dealt with in the NEWBIES sticky thread (on both counts)

Dee140157

This is your notice to keeper, even though called notice to owner. And it is way out of Pofa. 12 timescales.



You don't seem to be having a lot of luck with Llawnroc do you. I wonder of they actually got your details from the DVLA or whether they used the info from another NTK?

Definitely put in appeal. You know what to do now.

But since you seem to live where you are getting Pcns I would be complaining like me to the management etc.

zipmonster

Guys could you please have a look at this letter to the PPC, i will also complain to the BPA and Cc, PCS (Debt collectors) about just handing over my PCN to debt collectors without contacting the NTK


Dear Llawnroc Parking services Ltd xx August 2014

PCN number xxxxxxx
As the registered keeper, I have received a Notice to Owner parking invoice from PCS (Parking Collection Services) which of course, I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:
1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass.
3) The notice to keeper was sent outside the allotted 56 day time frame :

Ticket issued 31.03.14
Notice to Owner issued by PCS 30.7.14
POPLA Assessor Matthew Shaw has stated that the validity of a Notice to Keeper is fundamental to establishing liability for a parking charge. Where a Notice is to be relied upon to establish liability it must, as with any statutory provision, comply with the Act.
As the Notice was not compliant with the Act, it was not properly issued and as registered keeper I cannot be held liable.

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:
- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.
- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.
- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).
Take formal note:
(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.
(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.
(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.
By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours,

Dee140157

Yup looks fine for this one. Send it off.

zipmonster

Cheers Dee,

Its on its way, i have sent a copy to PCS. i have also complained to the BPA for not adhering to their code of practice by bypassing sending a NTK. They have acknowledge my email and are investigating!!

VMT