Utilities through our Landlord

princeofpounds

Guys and girls, you are arguing about whether the sun rises in the east or sets in the west! (There's a great children's book about that as it happens...)

Yes the LL is liable to the utility.
Yes the tenant is liable to the LL.
Yes the LL is behaving unlawfully if reselling at a profit.
Yes this doesn't change the tenant's liability for the lawful amount.

Arguing about which is 'more true' is unhelpful.

The LL is likely dodging consent-to-let, council tax, income tax, capital gains tax or all of the above.

If I was the OP I would not have paid a penny without sight of a bill and a written basis of charging methodology. It's been a while since I read those regs on resale but I think it's actually a duty on the LL to provide on request. No small claims court is going to nail you for anything until that is provided, otherwise it's just a speculative invoice.

Same applies now. And when it is settled I would be considering reporting the LL to council tax/income tax etc authorities as appropriate.

jjlandlord

princeofpounds wrote: »

No small claims court is going to nail you for anything until that is provided, otherwise it's just a speculative invoice.

It's not a speculating invoice: OP is liable.

If he does not pay a court will issue a CCJ, though it would probably not be impressed if the LL had not provided details of his calculation.

Anyway, that's still tangential to OP's original worry...

princeofpounds

Here is the brief guide for reselling:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/74486/11782-resaleupdateoct05.pdf

It discusses the duty to provide a basis for bills. It seems that if it is not provided on request the penalty is a reduction in the bill at 2x base rate until provided (bit pathetic these days). Plus overcharging can be recovered in court too.

It's not entirely clear on liability without a calculation basis, need to read the proper regulation for that.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

jjlandlord wrote: »

It's not a speculating invoice: OP is liable.

If he does not pay a court will issue a CCJ, though it would probably not be impressed if the LL had not provided details of his calculation.

Anyway, that's still tangential to OP's original worry...

Not be impressed?!!

Get real. If the tenant turns up at court, nobody within the legal profession will issue a CCJ to the tenant unless the LL provides a bill. I repeat to the OP, no bill, no pay.

jjlandlord

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays wrote: »

Not be impressed?!!

Get real. If the tenant turns up at court, nobody within the legal profession will issue a CCJ to the tenant unless the LL provides a bill. I repeat to the OP, no bill, no pay.

(1) the landlord would have provided a bill to the tenant, which would stand unless proved otherwise.
(2) the landlord would back that bill up in court with his bills from the supplier.

So the court would issue a judgement that the tenant must pay what he owes.
Now, they may not be impressed and e.g. refuse to grant costs.

jbainbridge

jjlandlord wrote: »

(1) the landlord would have provided a bill to the tenant, which would stand unless proved otherwise.
(2) the landlord would back that bill up in court with his bills from the supplier.

So the court would issue a judgement that the tenant must pay what he owes.
Now, they may not be impressed and e.g. refuse to grant costs.

Well the LL seems very reluctant to produce the actual bill ... which can only lead us to speculate ...

I would guess the meter isn't an official one?

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

jjlandlord wrote: »

(1) the landlord would have provided a bill to the tenant, which would stand unless proved otherwise.
(2) the landlord would back that bill up in court with his bills from the supplier.

So the court would issue a judgement that the tenant must pay what he owes.
Now, they may not be impressed and e.g. refuse to grant costs.

Have you read the thread?! The LL hasn't provided a bill, once.

Read post #6, carefully this time. No bill, no pay.

jjlandlord

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays wrote: »

Have you read the thread?! The LL hasn't provided a bill, once.

Read post #6, carefully this time. No bill, no pay.

I have, and I suggest you do the same.

Again, this is not about 'no bill no pay', or resale, or deposit protection, but OP being worried that the bill, when it comes, will be obviously large.
This has been replied to in posts #9 and #15.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

jjlandlord wrote: »

I have, and I suggest you do the same.

Again, this is not about 'no bill no pay', or resale, or deposit protection, but OP being worried that the bill, when it comes, will be obviously large.
This has been replied to in posts #9 and #15.

A bill that, to date, has never been produced.

You seem confident that it'll magically appear. Having actual real life experience of this scenario, I'd place my bets that the OP is unlikely to ever see a bill.

topdaddy_2

Regardless of jj cobblers etc op why are you concerned about a refrence? It matters not.