Green Tax Levy Refund

nossa_2

I am really puzzled as to why there is not a huge outcry from energy bill payers when their supplier will not refund the tax levy. My supplier states that because I was on a fixed tariff I don't warrant a refund. When I signed up to the tariff in Aug 2013 it was priced to include:

1) Cost of supplying the energy
2)Profit margin
3)Green Tax Levy

By not returning the tax collected they have increased their profit margin. Offgen say they can't get involved and I am waiting for the Energy Sec to clarify the the Government can't or wont dictate that the companies repay. Do other businesses get to keep the VAT/PAYE they collect. I am also conscious that my outcry is being smothered by newspaper comment sections.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

You also agreed to fix the prices, regardless. In 99% of instances, prices have generally risen, and it's been a no brainer. Sometimes though, fixing will go against the consumer.

You took a gamble, and in this instance, it didn't pay off. Why should the energy company pay up? Did those on fixed mortgages get money back when interest rates plummeted? Or how about those that bought their euros a few months before their holiday, but have now seen the pound strengthen?

nossa_2

Bluebirdman you really miss the point but I am suspicious of your reasons in posting. I didn't take a gamble - I made an agreement to pay for energy which was priced with the tax added. Some companies have refunded this tax my point is the Government have left it to the companies to do the honorable thing and guess what most have not. When the tariff was offered the energy company will have ensured they could deliver with a profit - the tax now scrapped has increased their profit

matelodave

I tend to agree that if you've signed a contract then that's what you pay - HOWEVER - the companies will adjust the tax rate to that which the government applies, so if VAT changes then your bill changes, unfortunately the crafty suppliers have rolled the levy tax into the unit rate. Morally they should refund it, legally they don't have to

nossa_2

I'm shocked that the 2 replies to my post are either "you're a gambling idiot" or "its legal so shut up". Why is nobody challenging the Government on this? They set the tax, permitted the energy companies to collect it, and are letting them keep it. If I want to give my money away it would be to charity not to the energy companies

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

nossa wrote: »

Bluebirdman you really miss the point but I am suspicious of your reasons in posting. I didn't take a gamble - I made an agreement to pay for energy which was priced with the tax added. Some companies have refunded this tax my point is the Government have left it to the companies to do the honorable thing and guess what most have not. When the tariff was offered the energy company will have ensured they could deliver with a profit - the tax now scrapped has increased their profit

I don't think I do miss the point, and you can be suspicious all you like. This is an open forum, and when people disagree with you you can expect to be challenged.

The honorable thing?! What on earth is that. Are you in business? Do you do the "honourable" thing and pay more tax than is necessary to help the poor? I'm going to go with no.

This is not a tax in the vein of VAT - for a start only 6 companies pay it out of the 100's in the market - those with smaller suppliers are seeing no reduction. You didn't agree to a fixed price "with the tax on top", you agreed to a price of x p/KWh and y p standing charge, and that is what you're getting.

Your point about profit is just tough - there are those that fixed their prices 3 years ago on whom the energy companies currently make a loss. It's called hedging, they do it every day with every customer, and pay energy traders handsomely to get it right.

Many customers choose not to hedge themselves by accepting variable tariffs. Some do, like you, and whilst most do well out of it, you've lost. Tough.

nossa_2

Birdman really suspicious now.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

Of what exactly?

nossa_2

:Tundercover_peon 10-01-2014 7:23 PM Green price reductions....

So I've been thinking about this for a little while and I think on balance the energy suppliers have ran rings round the government (yet again).

The government said there is no practical bar to the reductions being passed on and they expect that they will be passed on in full.

The way I see it some suppliers are basically pocketing free money from the government.

I know you can argue that a fixed rate is just that, you benefit from the peace of mind that price stability provides. However I do feel this is a little disingenuous.

The energy companies knew, or ought to have known, the costs of green levies and therefore would (or should) have accounted for them when setting prices. It is akin in my eyes to the VAT amount changing, they would pass this on either way.

I really do think the time has come to dispense with Ofgem and get somebody with a clue to fight for consumers.

I don't even think people would mind so much if prices were rising and it was explained as look more people across the world want more of the stuff so we're stuck. It is all this smoke and mirrors stuff that people dislike.

When a company says, with a straight face, moving jobs to India will improve service you have to ask at what point does the regulator or the government DO anything effective?

I've lost count of the number of times an Ofgem edict or action had an unintended consequence (usually the exact OPPOSITE of what was intended).

I'm going to sign the Npower petition as I feel they are the worst example, but am open to suggestions about what can be done about Ofgem.

Can't we get whomever worked for consumer focus (I think that was the name) back given that with gas sculpting they achieved a much better outcome for customers than ofgem did despite having no real power to do so?

Bluebirdman of Alcathays 10-01-2014 7:33 PM So you advocate a system where fixing prices is just a gold plated benefit for the savvy? Shall we do it with fixed price mortgages too?

The idea of fixing was always that, for a slight premium, you could protect yourself against price rises. If it falls, well, you're on a fixed price. Tough. People got too used to the fact that prices kept going up. Now it's gone down and some people have been caught out. Is that really the energy companies fault? Or should people engage their brains before entering into a fixed term contract.

I commend the companies that have reduced their fixed tariffs due to the green reduction, but I completely reject the notion they should be compelled to. Taking a fixed future rate on anything (shares, bullion, currency, or indeed energy) is a risk. Act accordingly.

NittyGritty 10-01-2014 7:50 PM think your missing the point, the government Reduced the Green levy, and as such ALL (the top 6) companys Regardless of being on fixed, or standard should pass on the reduction

theres a difference between a price descrease and the governments CUT in green tax. this is added to ALL bills Regardless of fixed/standard/variable deals

that was the WHOLE point of reducing the levy.

Bluebirdman of Alcathays 10-01-2014 7:56 PM Rubbish. Companies with fewer than 250,000 customers don't charge it at all. How do you think FU end up at the top of price comps all the time?!

It isn't the same as VAT, which everyone has to pay. It's a cost imposed on select suppliers, no different to their staffing costs or the cost of energy. As with all external business costs it is transferred to the consumer, but a universal tax it isn't.

NittyGritty 10-01-2014 8:09 PM I,m talking about the top 6, the smaller companys don't have the green levy!

Bluebirdman of Alcathays 10-01-2014 8:29 PM If you take out a fixed mortgage, and the bank changes it's interest rates, would you expect your repayments to change? Or only if it works in your favour?

A fixed price is a fixed price. The consumer agrees that contract. Again, I commend those companies that have passed the benefit on to all. But they don't need to.

NittyGritty 10-01-2014 8:48 PM Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebirdman of Alcathays (Post 64330254)
If you take out a fixed mortgage, and the bank changes it's interest rates, would you expect your repayments to change? Or only if it works in your favour?

A fixed price is a fixed price. The consumer agrees that contract. Again, I commend those companies that have passed the benefit on to all. But they don't need to.

your right it is, a fixed price, which is neither here nor there in the governments reduction, it was made to cut the bills for ALL not just a few, suggest you re read their announcement

Bluebirdman of Alcathays 10-01-2014 8:56 PM Quote:
Originally Posted by NittyGritty (Post 64330466)
your right it is, a fixed price, which is neither here nor there in the governments reduction, it was made to cut the bills for ALL not just a few, suggest you re read their announcement

So what's the point in the whole process? Are you suggesting government can ride roughshod over agreements entered into by consumers and companies? As you've belated attested to, the green levy was not a tax paid by ALL, so why should ALL consumers benefit?

NittyGritty 10-01-2014 8:59 PM Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebirdman of Alcathays (Post 64330576)
So what's the point in the whole process? Are you suggesting government can ride roughshod over agreements entered into by consumers and companies? As you've belated attested to, the green levy was not a tax paid by ALL, so why should ALL consumers benefit?

wrong , the green levy is paid by All ( the top 6 energy companys) regardless of being on fixed,standard,variable deal

Bluebirdman of Alcathays 10-01-2014 9:01 PM Quote:
Originally Posted by NittyGritty (Post 64330613)
wrong , the green levy is paid by all on the top 6 energy companys

Are you saying there is nobody with Utility Warehouse, First Utility, Ovo, ebico, economy energy, good energy, green energy, economy energy.........

Keep digging :T

NittyGritty 10-01-2014 10:43 PM Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebirdman of Alcathays (Post 64330640)
Are you saying there is nobody with Utility Warehouse, First Utility, Ovo, ebico, economy energy, good energy, green energy, economy energy.........

Keep digging :T

are any of those signed up to the green levy tax ? think you find the answer to be No, read what I said above, top 6 as they are called. incase you don't know who the top 6 are (npower, scotish power, e.on, SSE,EDF and BG)

and secondly why would any of the above get a reduction on the green levy when none of the above even have it added to their bills?

all the above are cheaper because they don't have the green levy added to bills.

but anyway we will agree to disagree

Bark01

Because its not a tax???

The government is giving every supplier £12 for each electricity customer, this will be passed onto all customers no question.

The rest of the reduction is a change to the way ECO costs are applied this should be ~£30-35 per year. The reason it is not being passed on is that signing up for a fixed price tariff is a gamble. ECO costs have seen significant rises over the past few years especially following the change from CERT/CESP. No one on fixed price products saw their bills increase on the back of these changes and in the same way no one should expect to see reductions following decreases in these costs.

nossa_2

a compulsory financial contribution imposed by a government to raise revenue, levied on the income or property of persons or organizations, on the production costs or sales prices of goods and services, etc

Its a tax