landlady is being unreasonable

doll_83

Hello all!

please bare in mind this is my very 1st thread.

My partner and I moved into a flat through agency X in september 2006 and signed a 12 month contract also we provided gurantors, for me it is my father as i am a student for my partner also a student who also works full time his fathers annual earnings were not sufficient for him to be used as a guarantor so Agency X asked an extra months rent from him which they verbally agreed would contribute towards the last months rent for which we have a reciept.

In June we recieved a letter from Agency X saying they no longer manage the flat and had enclosed the mobile number and bank details of the LL so we can set up payment with her.
My partner rang Agency X to confirm the letter was correct and ask for the LL name. During the conversations Agency X said they will be closing down and setting up with a new name. My partner queried about our deposit and was told it is transfered over to the landlady.
My partner then rang the LL to check the situation is correct. During the conversation we were told that Agency X had not been paying the LL the rent and she had not recieved rent since January. She explained that she will be claiming against Agency X. My partner asked about our deposit.
The LL responce was that she will contact Agency X to give her our deposit and get back to us.
The LL mentioned that she is putting the flat with a new agency (Y) who will be in contact with us.
she was pleasant and had been 'done over' my partner and I felt bad for her and agreed to pay the rent for that month directly into her account as it was due and she was also going on holiday in a few days.

After 3days we recieved a handwritten letter from the LL as she had lost our number. the letter said;

Dear T and Miss B

Sorry i have mislaid yur mobile number, please call me again and leave a message with your number.......
Agency Y will be in contact with you, if you want to call them sooner speak to J on 0000000.
I have phoned Agency X and they say that the Money/deposit is to be transfered to me, but i have no dates for this ior the money owed to me. You may have to go to small claims preocedure as I am at present.
I will keep you informed with any news as i get it thats why i need your number again.
Thanks
Rgards
LL

My partner sent the LL a text message so that she has our number.
A few days later he recieved a reply from the LL saying she is back and sorry she has not been in contact and that Agency Y is good all the best.

A week later on a late sunday evening she called and spoke to my partner asking for £60 towards the cost of a claim for deposit back from Agency X.
My partner said if he paid for the claim there is no guranteed of getting the money back therefore more loss of our money. Her reply was that if we want our deposit back we would have to claim it off Agency X. My partner told her that Agency X will say they haver transfered the deposit to the LL so we will have to claim the deposit from her (LL)
The LL started to get angry and raise her voice saying if we had in writting the fact that the deposit had been trandfered to her.
My partner asked her to explain why we had to pay for the claim as it is her responsibility to which she got angry and said i dont have to explain myself and that she is very disappointed and is ending the converdation them hung up.
We have not had contact since which is almost 2 weeks now.

My partner and I would like to know what options we have.
Can we withold rent untill she (LL) claims she is responsible for the return of our deposit in writing?
Does the contract still stand?
Can we use the deposit to cover the remaining rent?
Can we leave?
we have no details of the LL except a mobile number so if we pay the remaining rent and leave there is no way of getting hold of her for our deposit back.
we have not sighned anything with the new Agency.
Will she sue my guarantor for my rent?
please advise

thank you for taking the time to read my thread

barnaby-bear

doll_83 wrote: »

Hello all!

please bare in mind this is my very 1st thread.

My partner and I moved into a flat through agency X in september 2006 and signed a 12 month contract also we provided gurantors, for me it is my father as i am a student for my partner also a student who also works full time his fathers annual earnings were not sufficient for him to be used as a guarantor so Agency X asked an extra months rent from him which they verbally agreed would contribute towards the last months rent for which we have a reciept.

In June we recieved a letter from Agency X saying they no longer manage the flat and had enclosed the mobile number and bank details of the LL so we can set up payment with her.
My partner rang Agency X to confirm the letter was correct and ask for the LL name. During the conversations Agency X said they will be closing down and setting up with a new name. My partner queried about our deposit and was told it is transfered over to the landlady.
My partner then rang the LL to check the situation is correct. During the conversation we were told that Agency X had not been paying the LL the rent and she had not recieved rent since January. She explained that she will be claiming against Agency X. My partner asked about our deposit.
The LL responce was that she will contact Agency X to give her our deposit and get back to us.
The LL mentioned that she is putting the flat with a new agency (Y) who will be in contact with us.
she was pleasant and had been 'done over' my partner and I felt bad for her and agreed to pay the rent for that month directly into her account as it was due and she was also going on holiday in a few days.

After 3days we recieved a handwritten letter from the LL as she had lost our number. the letter said;

Dear T and Miss B

Sorry i have mislaid yur mobile number, please call me again and leave a message with your number.......
Agency Y will be in contact with you, if you want to call them sooner speak to J on 0000000.
I have phoned Agency X and they say that the Money/deposit is to be transfered to me, but i have no dates for this ior the money owed to me. You may have to go to small claims preocedure as I am at present.
I will keep you informed with any news as i get it thats why i need your number again.
Thanks
Rgards
LL

My partner sent the LL a text message so that she has our number.
A few days later he recieved a reply from the LL saying she is back and sorry she has not been in contact and that Agency Y is good all the best.

A week later on a late sunday evening she called and spoke to my partner asking for £60 towards the cost of a claim for deposit back from Agency X.
My partner said if he paid for the claim there is no guranteed of getting the money back therefore more loss of our money. Her reply was that if we want our deposit back we would have to claim it off Agency X. My partner told her that Agency X will say they haver transfered the deposit to the LL so we will have to claim the deposit from her (LL)
The LL started to get angry and raise her voice saying if we had in writting the fact that the deposit had been trandfered to her.
My partner asked her to explain why we had to pay for the claim as it is her responsibility to which she got angry and said i dont have to explain myself and that she is very disappointed and is ending the converdation them hung up.
We have not had contact since which is almost 2 weeks now.

My partner and I would like to know what options we have.
Can we withold rent untill she (LL) claims she is responsible for the return of our deposit in writing?
Does the contract still stand?
Can we use the deposit to cover the remaining rent?
Can we leave?
we have no details of the LL except a mobile number so if we pay the remaining rent and leave there is no way of getting hold of her for our deposit back.
we have not sighned anything with the new Agency.
Will she sue my guarantor for my rent?
please advise

thank you for taking the time to read my thread

Toooo complicated and badly managed.... Too messy.

Read EagerLearner's.

For rent to payable and tenancy proper you should have servable address of LL with only mobile there is good reason to be suspicious. You have paid deposit as expected she's the one with the contract with the LA - her problem.... just leave stating rent to be covered by deposit - she's too many warning bells and without servable address you've no recourse.... and technically justifiable reason legally for non-rent payment - lack of servable address.
She chose a dodgy LA - her problem recovering deposit etc...

Doozergirl

My understanding would be the same as your landlady's. You both dealt individually with the agent. You gave them deposit to look after for you and rent which was not passed to the Landlady. As the rent belongs to her, she is having to persue them for it. The deposit still belongs to you and so you need to persue them for it. It sounds like the LL has been trying to help by starting the smallclaims process.

She isn't persuing you because she hasn't received the rent money, so why do you think she owes you the deposit? If the EA were above board, it would be very easy to prove that the money was paid to her. The fact that they have shut down, does make your LL more believable.

You have both been had. I hardly think that doing a runner and ripping the LL off for the last month's rent is the way to go. You'd just be screwing her, totally.

Who do you really think is being unreasonable?

doll_83

Thanks for your replies
I have spoken with a student advisor and was told regardless of her situation she is responsible for the return of the deposit whether she has to claim it back or not.
Her name or address is not on the contract as being the landlord instead details of Agency X are there.

olly300

Doozergirl wrote: »

My understanding would be the same as your landlady's. You both dealt individually with the agent. You gave them deposit to look after for you and rent which was not passed to the Landlady. As the rent belongs to her, she is having to persue them for it. The deposit still belongs to you and so you need to persue them for it. It sounds like the LL has been trying to help by starting the smallclaims process.

This is completely and legally wrong.

The tenants initial contract was with the agency. Now the contract is with the landlady. She is therefore now responsible for paying back the deposit. (This is the same situation as if you sell a property with tenants in it, the new landlord is responsible for the deposit.)

She isn't persuing you because she hasn't received the rent money, so why do you think she owes you the deposit? If the EA were above board, it would be very easy to prove that the money was paid to her. The fact that they have shut down, does make your LL more believable.

Legally the landlady can't pursue the tenants as the contract is between her and the agency. If she pursues the tenants and they prove they paid the agency rent, then she just loses her court costs.

You have both been had. I hardly think that doing a runner and ripping the LL off for the last month's rent is the way to go. You'd just be screwing her, totally.
It's her tough luck. She should have ensured that her details where on the tenancy agreement and contacted the tenants from the beginning.

Who do you really think is being unreasonable?

The agency by shutting down to escape paying money they owe. Even if they are pursued in court the landlady will not get her money due to limited liability rules.

So only the landlady has been had.

BTW if the tenants don't think they will get their deposit back then they should agree with the landlady not to pay the rent. She can do nothing except pursue them or the guarantor for damages to her property.

pcwilkins

if the contract is between you and agency X then the landlady is not responsible for your deposit. Your deposit was paid to the agency, not the landlady.

doll_83

Rent has been paid every month on time and in full. however we are yet to set up the standing order with the new agency as we want to know what are rights and options are

wifeforlife

pcwilkins wrote: »

if the contract is between you and agency X then the landlady is not responsible for your deposit. Your deposit was paid to the agency, not the landlady.

My contract is between myself and my landlord. Although an agency acted as a middle man. Surely their contract is the same, they aren't renting the hosue from the letting agency, it's rentable from the landlady?!

If it was myself and my landlord I'd expect my deposit back from him as it was his choice to have a letting agent and it isnt your fault she made the wrong choice

I hope everyone gets sorted though, not a nice way to have things

Cate

olly300

pcwilkins wrote: »

if the contract is between you and agency X then the landlady is not responsible for your deposit. Your deposit was paid to the agency, not the landlady.

Fine in theory but not in law.

For these reasons:
1. Landlords have different contracts with agencies which means that some use to hold the deposit for the landlord while others gave the deposit to the landlord. The tenant doesn't not know this and cannot be expect to know this.

2. The majority of AST are written with terms that make it clear that the landlord has "agents" who act on their behalf. A letting agent is an "agent" of the landlord.

barnaby-bear

olly300 wrote: »

Fine in theory but not in law.

For these reasons:
1. Landlords have different contracts with agencies which means that some use to hold the deposit for the landlord while others gave the deposit to the landlord. The tenant doesn't not know this and cannot be expect to know this.

2. The majority of AST are written with terms that make it clear that the landlord has "agents" who act on their behalf. A letting agent is an "agent" of the landlord.

By taking rent directly from the tenant the LL has proved she is the LL, is the agent was her agent rent should go via them, she can't take the rent without the responsibility for the contract.

doll_83

what should we do? rent is due on the 18th we have to set up a standing order by the 16th.
We dont want to mess the LL around and havent so far we have been good tenants we have had continuous problems with flat since the day we moved in but we know that is not her responsibilty and have been fair towards her by paying the last month rent directly into her account.

what to do