Chipboard flooring for use in a damp situation? Can it work?

JustAnotherSaver

zaax wrote: »

Try to work out were is it coming from, but if it is unsolvable put in a sump pump.

A good piece about sump pumps

http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/plumbing/sump-pump1.htm

I've been on my hands & knees under there & i see little air bubbles in the water from below. I assume this is where it's coming in.

Thing is, we're in a cul-de-sac & it's sort of a U shape. Ok that's heavily exaggerated, but you get the idea.
Those of us in the dip are effected by it, including the roads beyond us & behind us. We're effected in different ways. For example - our rear neighbour has a very wet garden & he had to raise his garden because of it. He has decking out, but his house is relatively fine.
Our immediate neighbour has it bad, real bad. It's all over the living room party wall. It blows the drain cover off under heavy rain (separate issue?)
We need to catch those opposite us as they're always out, but i see they have an additional air brick & they've had injection to the outside brickwork.
Those next to them across from us apparently had their floor renewed because the bloke fell through it due to damp/rotten boards.

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Only you can decide if you want to tackle the water issue, I did follow it but can't recall the details right now.

As others say, use T&G flooring. I'd lay roofing felt, slaters felt or similar over the joists prior to boarding, then hope for the best.:A:A:A

VERY interesting.

See, everyone else has said lay down DPC over the joists. Visqueen i imagine. Not sure if 1000g or 1200g or whether it even matters in the grand scheme of things, but this kind of thing all the same.
You're the only one to say felt. I'm interested as to why you said this?

The reason i ask why is because from what i can see & feel, it looks like there's felt already on there. It's pretty flimsy now (does this stuff break down badly or is it just soft stuff anyway?) but it's there all the same, as well as slate in sections.




But no, as for the water issue, yes in an ideal world we would have it solid floored & everything would work perfect.
Unfortunately we just don't have the money to do that. With other things that need attention & where we are in our lives right now & where we want to be, the only choice is to manage it - which means new floor, sump pump & tackle the issue of the walls, be it Oldroyd/Wykamol, batten & board or what i don't know.




For those who aren't familiar with my situation - the council actually came out to the area 30 years ago & tried to solve the water issue. They couldn't do it. They also advise to manage it & not try to cure it.

JustAnotherSaver

martinthebandit wrote: »

http://www.cemex.co.uk/beam-and-block-floor-systems.aspx

If your laying carpets etc why are you looking for a wood floor?

I've considered block & beam believe me.

The problem is, we NEED access to the subfloor in the event the sump pump goes knackered which with it being an electrical item, it inevitably will do.
The water pipe work/radiator piping is down there too.

So i spoke to a few builders as i couldn't see how you could allow access to the subfloor. The few i asked all said the same - hmm yeah that's a point, that's a tricky one isn't it.

Whether they're just crap builders or whether they're just not interested & can't be bothered to spend the time to help or not i don't know, but we need access.

If we could construct some sort of access hatch or whatever, then is there any modification that needs to be done when installing block & beam? Anything to the ends on the house side or the sleeper wall side? Or do they just sit there as wooden joists would've?


Or is it possible to go concrete beam with wooden floorboards, since it's the joists that are goosed & the floorboards - it's only their ends that are a bit mushy, but no big deal. Or are you going to go ahead & laugh at me for that idea as nobody does that?

andyhop wrote: »

Tanalised timber and wrap the lot in DPC, not just the ends

The floor could be done in 22/25mm marine plywood , even apply a coat of yacht varnish to underside and all cut edges

There's a thought - what about 'sweating'? If you wrap any of it, be it the ends or all of it, is there any risk of it sweating & therefore we'll be no further forward?

The joists that are in there now, the centre pieces are fine, it's just the ends that are the problem really.

Oh & what do you make of what some tradesmen i've spoken to have said - that wood these days is, to put it nicely, crap, and not a patch on the wood they used back then?

I did think of marine ply as we've had this in as special order for boats. From what i can remember though it is dear dear stuff.

cyclonebri1

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

Those next to them across from us apparently had their floor renewed because the bloke fell through it due to damp/rotten boards. VERY interesting.

See, everyone else has said lay down DPC over the joists. Visqueen i imagine. Not sure if 1000g or 1200g or whether it even matters in the grand scheme of things, but this kind of thing all the same.
You're the only one to say felt. I'm interested as to why you said this?

The reason i ask why is because from what i can see & feel, it looks like there's felt already on there. It's pretty flimsy now (does this stuff break down badly or is it just soft stuff anyway?) but it's there all the same, as well as slate in sections.




But no, as for the water issue, yes in an ideal world we would have it solid floored & everything would work perfect.
Unfortunately we just don't have the money to do that. With other things that need attention & where we are in our lives right now & where we want to be, the only choice is to manage it - which means new floor, sump pump & tackle the issue of the walls, be it Oldroyd/Wykamol, batten & board or what i don't know.




For those who aren't familiar with my situation - the council actually came out to the area 30 years ago & tried to solve the water issue. They couldn't do it. They also advise to manage it & not try to cure it.

I mentioned roofing felt as it is somewhat less prone to sweating than polythene, probably because it's thicker. ie, water vapour shouldn't form on the warm side, (between the felt and the floorboards)

And I do mean felt, not the synthetic modern permeable roofers material.

JustAnotherSaver

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

I mentioned roofing felt as it is somewhat less prone to sweating than polythene, probably because it's thicker. ie, water vapour shouldn't form on the warm side, (between the felt and the floorboards)

And I do mean felt, not the synthetic modern permeable roofers material.

Good point.

Although if felt should be used in the situation you provided then surely Visqueen would be a bad idea for the ends? Yet it can't be as that's what is used these days isn't it? So If it's good enough for the ends, wouldn't it be good enough to lay under the joist & on top of the sleeper wall?

I'm not challenging, i'm just asking.

I had a look at what felt we stock. We stock that breathable felt, so i'm taking that it's that stuff that shouldn't be used. We also stock torch on felt & green mineral. I guess the GM would be fine. It seems pretty thick stuff. Sometimes we get damaged rolls & we can get offcuts at discount or even free.

Ruski

This is suitable for the sleeper wall - about as close you can get to what Cy is describing.
Visqueen is easier to work with as far as wrapping joist ends is concerned.
Floorboard ends shouldn't be touching walls anyway.

HTH

Russ

JustAnotherSaver

Ahh i wonder if that is the same stuff as our Hi-Load DPC. It's got a foam backing if i remember right. It's not really my department - it's in the stores.

Our floorboard ends are all over the shop. Some touch, some are way off.


Going mildly off topic, i was cleaning the wall off after having taken all the plaster off. Now, most of the joints seem to be the original whatever was used back in the 1930s. I assume not like modern cement? Something more breathable perhaps.

Anyway the brick course that is level with the floorboards, the joint just above this is damp/wet & is sand like. It certainly isn't hard like the rest. If i dig at it i could pull it out no problem. Surely it isn't supposed to be like that.

It's also been chemically injected at some point as the bricks are holed up. In fact, 2 courses have been injected (don't know if this is standard practice).
Luckily we have a damp fella living behind us & he said we'll be wasting our time injecting as it wont work. (Really??! lol).

I just thought the sand between bricks at one course rather strange.

martinthebandit

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=concrete+floor+access+hatch&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=9s6rU4y7IIbxPMWugeAD&ved=0CFAQsAQ&biw=962&bih=445

JustAnotherSaver

That's not bad at all.

Personally i like it. I like the idea of concrete beams. I like the idea of the hatch.

I do have my concerns though -

* If we need someone to get down there, they may not fit. The chap i tried to get out to look at our sump pump (who ended up being a no show waste of time) was a big guy. I can just about fit down the current opening with a bit of jiggling & i personally don't mind crawling around under there. He would probably need an opening 3 times the size. As such he'd have probably required the floor to come up.

* Then there's the health & safety side of it. There's an asbestos pipe running into the fire (we assume it's asbestos). There is electrical wiring down there that is running along & across the joists. In this day & age where everything is about health & safety, this could have people refusing to go down there. Like i say, it doesn't bother me - but it may bother them & we may need someone out at some point to do work on it.

* I tried to catch a builder today to ask about this but didn't see the ones i wanted so i'm not sure how the cost stacks up against replacing like-for-like.
I'd bet a good whack that these are original timbers, therefore they're 80 years old. If the replacements even only last half of that at 40 years then i'd be happy. Not to be all doomy & gloomy but the way my health goes, i don't expect to be around then. If i am then there's every chance i wont be living in it in 40 years time.

Thanks for your post though.

cyclonebri1

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

Good point.

Although if felt should be used in the situation you provided then surely Visqueen would be a bad idea for the ends? Yet it can't be as that's what is used these days isn't it? So If it's good enough for the ends, wouldn't it be good enough to lay under the joist & on top of the sleeper wall?

I'm not challenging, i'm just asking.

I had a look at what felt we stock. We stock that breathable felt, so i'm taking that it's that stuff that shouldn't be used. We also stock torch on felt & green mineral. I guess the GM would be fine. It seems pretty thick stuff. Sometimes we get damaged rolls & we can get offcuts at discount or even free.

The ends of the joists are buried in the wall, the poly interfaces brickwork and timber, ie, they aren't in contact with warm and cold air, that's the difference.

JustAnotherSaver

Food for thought.

What concerns me though is that like i said - whoever put this in place all those years ago took the same approach you suggested (felt), and for whatever scientific reason that is beyond my capacity, it hasn't worked. I've seen felt there as a barrier & slate too in sections. Some joist ends are wetter than others.

I guess i'm lucky since i can get various materials either dirt cheap or even free. As such i would probably go for the overkill approach. Put visqueen down on the sleeper wall but then perhaps felt on top of this to stop any sweating getting to the joist.

Can't harm things & i guess overkill isn't bad

Though a thought has just come to me - i remember someone (one of the many builders i've spoken to i think) saying they'd put a sand & cement mix down on top of the sleeper wall first, with waterproofer in the mix.