Loading bay fine from council

nobbysn*ts

londonTiger wrote: »

Why definately? A hatchback is just a shorter version of an estate.

Also, you said you were dropping off mail, with isn't generally considered 'goods'. (Well unless it's a sack full)

londonTiger

Orford wrote: »

That maybe your opinion, but no adjudicator is going to agree with you.

Yeah, I think you're right. A lot of these are matters of opinion about how the law is implemented when there is abiguity. I don't think an adjudicator will side with me.

Best bet is the TRO - Google maps has a loading only sign on the bay, I think at the time of the office the sign was changed to loading bay for goods vehicles only. So I need to find evidence that this change was illegal due to absense of TRO.

Orford

londonTiger wrote: »

Hi

The council in question is London Borough of Barking and Dagenham. But I cannot find the listing of this council at http://tro.parking-adjudication.gov.uk/default.aspx

Does it have their own system?

Yes, handily TPT Register only has England and Wales excluding London boroughs.

You could try asking Barking to email it to you (some will,some won't), but it is a public document and by law is available to view on demand at their offices. You'd need to ring Highways to find out which office.

londonTiger

Orford wrote: »

One avenue would be to find out whether the Traffic Regulation Order has also been amended to reflect the change. Councils can be very lax about this as newTRO's costs them money .

I have emailed the council requesting the TRO for this amendment of the loading bay.

If it turns out they do not have a TRO for the change is that a clear cut case for grounds of appeal. Or will I have to jump through hoops? E.g. council refuses representation > have to appeal to ombudsman and then get the PCN cancelled?

Also are there any circumstances where the change in the bay does not require a TRO (as it is a small change from a general load bay to a goods vehicle only loading bay).

Although the contravention will be wholly different.

londonTiger

The council informed me that I'm after TMOs not TROs.

http://www.lbbd.gov.uk/TransportAndStreets/Parking/Pages/ParkingTMO.aspx

The staff said they'll post it to me, sounded like they have it. I didn't explicitly ask but he from the tone of his voice it appears the council has done their compliance.

Coupon-mad

Did you post on pepipoo about this yet? They are the Council parking ticket experts:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

No posting on pepipoo without pics though! All dates/words on the PCN, front & back (except the PCN number and vehicle reg). And a pic of the current sign, and info about what you were delivering. Taking to adjacent premises, a bulky or valuable or unweildy postal packet CAN be 'unloading'.

Trouble is this contravention wording:

The PCN states "Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle [code: 23l] in a loading place for goods only"

...is written more clearly than we sometimes see. But then again, if it was a CCTV PCN then you have all this info to use and cases to cite from this adjudicator's report:

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=867.0

...should have used a CEO on foot is just one part of the argument to say they didn't pay regard to the guidelines...IF it was a postal PCN.

HTH but post on pepipoo for more help, with your pics.

w211

The adjudicator will consider the quantity, size and weight of the mail/eBay items. If it was a reasonably large amount, that you had to use the loading bay to drop it off, then there maybe a chance that they'll order the council to cancel the PCN.

However, if the items were easily transportable and carried by hand, then it may not be so. Otherwise, the "loading" bay could be used by people to pick up/drop off cheques, collect their takeaways, shoes/dry cleaning etc. In that case, the adjudicator could ask why you couldn't park in a normal parking bay.

If you were using the loading bay for "valid business reasons" as suggested in the original post, and saying that in your representations, make sure that you also have the appropriate insurance for your car, not just standard SDP, just in case they check, and you could be done for not having the appropriate insurance cover.

Also keep all receipts from eBay, as they'll show the size and nature of the goods.

Hope it somewhat helps.

RDeen25

Hi everyone,

Sorry for opening up this thread again - just about to pay my fine, but happened to come across this thread.

I'm in a similar situation where I parked in a loading bay, but there are no restrictions for the class of vehicle allowed. There is a limit of 1 hour allowed. I had stopped in the parking bay to pick up some bulky items (a clothes-horse, some baby essentials and household cleaning items), without the clothes-horse I would have been okay to park elsewhere but due to the size of the item I wasn't sure if I could carry it across the road to my car.

I researched through the parking regulations manual and found a clause which stated:
"7.27 A parking place may be reserved for loading only, either by any class of vehicle or by goods vehicles. The provision of a loading bay reserves space for deliveries or for customers collecting goods, where it might otherwise be taken up by lawfully parked vehicles, including those of disabled badge holders parked on yellow lines where loading is not prohibited. Disabled badge holders may use loading bays, other than those reserved for goods vehicles, but only for as long as is necessary for the purposes of loading or unloading"

Based on this, I appealed the PCN attaching a receipt of the goods I had gone to collect (not a dated delivery note). It has now been rejected and they say they reviewed five minutes of the CCTV footage (collecting took about 15 mins due to queues on a Sunday evening) but couldn't identify any loading/unloading activity. And, citing the a order receipt doesn't prove I collected any item on the date/time of the issued PCN.

I have now been given the choice of appealing against this decision and referring the case to an independent adjudicator - what are my chances of a favourable decision?

How can I post a picture of the letter here? Help!

Appreciate your help!

Thanks!
Deen

Coupon-mad

just about to pay my fine,

What? DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

What??

Anyway most people get a rejection at first then MOST people will win at adjudication. Go to pepipoo for help, and win:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Start a new topic there and show them the PCN - both sides including the BACK! and the rejection letter and the loading bay, please. NO need to try to show us pics here. Post them on pepipoo.

Let us know when I am proved right and you win.

RDeen25

I took the case up with the Adjudicator and the decision was in my favour!

I can't post links to screen captures of the adjudicator letter since I'm still a newbie here. Will share samples of the appeal letters and documents if anybody wants them - let me know your email ids.

Thanks for your help!