N5b

cabbage

Hi

Im pleased to say I think the S21 is valid because the PI was given again to the tenant. Thanks for the advice.

The LA are still saying they only have to pay for the days they have been there after the tenancy expired.

I will see if they leave on Friday if not will press for a full month's rent and issue n5b.

Someone told me that I shouldn't refer to any monies as rent but Mense Profit otherwise it becomes a statutory periodic assured shorthold tenancy. Anyone know if this is correct?

I keep waivering between issuing N5b on Friday or just wait until they leave. If i submit n5b on Friday, and I pay the fee of £280 at what point does the liability to pay £280 go to the tenants. Is it when its served and is this 14 days after submission?

I don't want to pay £280 and they vacate within days (they are trying to buy a new property) and it was all for nothing. By the same token we do want possession as soon as we can.

Continued thanks for all your help.

thesaint

You have not mentioned the tenants serving a valid Notice To Quit.
If that is correct, then the tenants owe a full months rent on the 21st June 2014.

cabbage

Hi

Thanks for your reply

A S21 Notice Requiring Possession was delivered by hand on 16 April 2014 by the LA. The date of expiry is 20 June 2014.

So we are entitled to a full month's rent then even if they leave on 28 June and if they do leave on 28th June, by asking for a full month's rent this doesn't start a Statutory Periodic AST?

What about mense profits?

regards

Cabbage

thesaint

cabbage wrote: »

So we are entitled to a full month's rent then even if they leave on 28 June and if they do leave on 28th June, by asking for a full month's rent this doesn't start a Statutory Periodic AST?

What about mense profits?

regards

Cabbage

Your Sec 21 has no effect on their tenancy. It is irrelevant to the discussion.

They owed you one full months rent on the 21st June 2014.

The SPT has started, it is a done deal.

Mesne profits don't come into it, as the tenancy has not ended.

cabbage

Hi

I wanted to update you all on what happened next.

The tenants wouldn't reply to the LA phone calls but there was a removal van on the drive on 27th. They didn't speak to the LA until Saturday morning to say they had vacated and posted the keys through the door and surrendered the tenancy. They also said they are not the best cleaners and realised they wouldn't get all of their deposit back.

We did the check out with the LA. It was mucky but not horrendous. It needs redecorating because of marks on the walls and the carpets cleaning. They took a curtain pole and left a gaping hole where a TV bracket was. So all in all not too bad.

The LA said the tenants' owed a month's rent on 21 June but as they had surrendered the tenancy and we've taken possession they only need to pay the rent for the days they were there plus Saturday.

The N5b would have been irrelevant as at Friday they had rent arrears and I would have had to go through the section 8 process but my landlord's insurance would have kicked in because of the arrears so I would have help to process it.

I'm so thankful for all your help during this time. You helped me to keep sane and put things into prospective as well as giving me guidance and something to aim for.

Cabbage

dancingfairy

I'm not sure the letting agents are correct regarding paying for a part month. Do remember that anyone can set them up to be a letting agent with no legal training whatsoever. It may be however that normally in the past they have agreed to pro-rata the rent but that does not mean that that's the law.
It sounds like in the end you have come out of it o.k as it could have been a lot worse.
df

Better_Days

I'm not sure about the month's rent either.

When we rented last year we left part way through a rental period. We paid pro rata - but only because:

1) LL agreed
2) We left the property cleaner than when we moved in, so nothing for LL to do other than a little routine maintenance
3) The new tenant moved in a couple of days after we moved out

LA made it clear that we would be liable to pay the full months rent if they had been unable to re-let (although very unlikely as rental market boyant here).

What has the LA told the tenants? And what does the tenancy agreement say?

slopemaster

booksurr wrote: »

in law a rental period is indivisible, so stay one day and you owe rent for the whole period. Naturally you as LL may waive that right and may accept a pro rata rent, but it is your decision,

Unless it says otherwise in the contract, surely?
(I know mine says pro rata.)
Or would this only apply if done by mutual agreement?

thesaint

cabbage wrote: »

The LA said the tenants' owed a month's rent on 21 June but as they had surrendered the tenancy and we've taken possession they only need to pay the rent for the days they were there plus Saturday.

You can lead a horse to water...

G_M

cabbage wrote: »

Hi

...... there was a removal van on the drive on 27th. They didn't speak to the LA until Saturday morning to say they had vacated and posted the keys through the door and surrendered the tenancy.

See [FONT=&quot]Laine and Mitchell v Cadwallader & Cadwallader (2001)[/FONT] in the Court of Appeal:

1. As to what happened on 10th September 1998 when the keys were put through Mrs Laine's letter box, the (original) judge said:
   "So there was, therefore, a surrender on that day."
2. In terms of everyday speech that observation of the judge is understandable, but legally the dropping in of the keys cannot have constituted more than an offer to surrender which the landlords were free to accept or reject. It seems clear that there was no express acceptance of the offer so as to terminate the tenancy with immediate effect. The landlords seem to have regarded the dropping in of the keys as informal notice to quit or an offer to terminate. They seem to have agreed to terminate the tenancy at the end of the minimum period for which a proper notice could have been given

The Court of Appeal over-ruled the original judge, so you can charge ongoing rent until the expiry of the Notice to Quit which must align with the tenancy periods.