N5b

cabbage

Hi

I've searched lots of threads on here and landlordzone before posting but have a few questions which I hope some kind soul will be able to answer.

We've used a letting agent and rented out a property from21 June last year. A new TA was signed on 21 December for a further 6 months. The Deposit was protected when the original tenancy started on 21 June 2013. A section 21 notice was served by the LA, hand delivered on 16 April 2014.

The tenants have taken advice and say they are not moving until 28 June. At the moment the LA cannot contact the tenants to find out if this is a definite date (buying a property) ie they've exchanged contracts or an estimated date. I'm in a dilemma when to submit the docs to the court. If they do move out 28 June and its a definite date ie exchanged contracts and have a completion date, I won't go down this route but as they have been a bit unreliable and difficult to contact and tend to drop the bomb and then be out of contact I feel it might be necessary if they haven't exchanged or are going to exchange and complete in one day. What are your thoughts?

A section 21 notice was hand delivered by LA on 16 April.

I'm thinking of issuing form N5b next week as I'm not convinced they will move out on the day they say. I have a few questions on the N5b- helpfully N5c guidance notes have been deleted from the list of publications.

So here goes.........

1 the Fee - its extremely difficult to find the fee for this on HMCS/www.gov.uk etc. Most posts on here and landlordzone refer to the fee of £150. I've just rung the court and was told its £280. Does anyone know if this is correct? The person at the other end didn't know and asked a colleague but it seemed the guessed it and didn't know what a n5b is.

2. The info on landlord zone states I have to fill in the top righthand box with the court name. Its the box with claim no and fee account no. It also advising filling in the Certificate of Service boxes too. Is this correct?

3. Again LLzone states you can add a legal rep cost if you've done it yourself. Is this still the case and would £100 be excessive or should i leave it blank?

4 Section 3 I'm not sure what to complete. Do I go for the first a)b)c) or do I need to go with the second set of a, b, c and complete the info on service. The tenancy began on 21 June 13 for six months it was renewed with a TA starting on 21 Dec 13 for six months. Rent is paid on 21st of each month.

5 Is the TDS code the reference?

I've asked the LA to complete N215 to confirm a section 21 was served and I have a copy. It was hand delivered 16.4.14 but I'm not sure at what time so I've put the date of service as 17.4.14 as it might have been after 4.30pm.

Thanks for your time. I've tried to do lots of research and managed to complete most of the docs needed but I'm stuck now.

We've done everything by the book, always dealt with any issues promptly. We were going to end the tenancy in December but thought it would be bad timing especially as they have kids so entered into another agreement. They asked on 9 May whether we would extend the notice but didn't give a reason and we said no as we wanted to move in.

Anyway enough rambling.... its the law and we all have to abide by it. Background and what we wanted to do is not relevant.

thanks for reading

pmlindyloo

This link may answer some of your questions:

Sorry link not working.

Google 'form N5b guidance notes' and look for link from Property Hawk

G_M

cabbage wrote: »

Hi

I...

We've used a letting agent and rented out a property from21 June last year. A new TA was signed on 21 December for a further 6 months. The Deposit was protected when the original tenancy started on 21 June 2013. A section 21 notice was served by the LA, hand delivered on 16 April 2014.

..........................

When the 2nd TA was signed was the deposit re-registered and/or the Prescribed Information re-issued?

If not, the court may well rule the S21 invalid.

Onlt way to protect against this is to return the deposit in full (or less any agreed deductions), and then re-serve the S21 Notice.

thesaint

1. The fee is £280, it was £175, but went up in April this year.
I doubt any thread on Landlordzone states it is/was £150.

2. Fill in the name of the court only.

3. Leave blank

4. Cross out everything after "or".

5. Yes.

Tell them that if they stay at the property beyond the 20th June, they will owe at least another months rent.

cabbage

pmlindyloo wrote: »

This link may answer some of your questions:

Sorry link not working.

Google 'form N5b guidance notes' and look for link from Property Hawk

HI

I have been on property hawk too and couldn't find answers

regards

Tessa

cabbage

G_M wrote: »

When the 2nd TA was signed was the deposit re-registered and/or the Prescribed Information re-issued?

If not, the court may well rule the S21 invalid.

Onlt way to protect against this is to return the deposit in full (or less any agreed deductions), and then re-serve the S21 Notice.

HI

Thanks for that. I have asked the letting agents. Although the certificate itself says beginning 21 June 13 and ending on or after 21 December 2013. Does that cover it?

I will see what the agents say.

cabbage

thesaint wrote: »

1. The fee is £280, it was £175, but went up in April this year.
I doubt any thread on Landlordzone states it is/was £150.

2. Fill in the name of the court only.

3. Leave blank

4. Cross out everything after "or".

5. Yes.

Tell them that if they stay at the property beyond the 20th June, they will owe at least another months rent.

Thank you so much. Your post was extremely helpful and has answered all my questions. I can't thank you enough.

Re the fee - I think because I'm not a member of Landlordzone (didn't think I would need to be with a letting agent) I was probably accessing some out of date threads that are available to non members? or I looked at so many old websites I could have got some very old info and many referred to n5c guidance notes which are not available now.

I didn't realise they would have to pay a month's rent - doh!

I'm getting info from LA re the post above about not re protecting the deposit when the tenancy was renewed on 21 Dec.

Once again, many many thanks for your help.

regards

Cabbage

G_M

cabbage wrote: »

HI

Thanks for that. I have asked the letting agents. Although the certificate itself says beginning 21 June 13 and ending on or after 21 December 2013. Does that cover it?

I will see what the agents say.

No. On 21st December a new tenancy started so the current advice to LLs (since Superstrike Vs Rodrigues) is that the deposit should be re-registered an/or PI re-issued.

Of course, this post here implies that in the future this requirement will be changed. But not yet!

cabbage

Hi

Heard from LA. They say the deposit doesn't have to be re protected and the tenant only has to pay for the days he's in the property not for the whole month.

If the deposit needs re protecting then the LA has dropped a googlie and section 21 is not valid. I will have a look at the link now.

Thanks for the continued advice

cabbage

I've checked both links. My S21 relates to an AST 21 Dec 13 for 6 months. As I see it the super strike ruling relates to a periodic AST which I suppose our tenancy has become. So perhaps it's time to re protect the deposit.

As for AST coming to an end, I can see it becoming law to re protect at the beginning of every new tenancy agreement but it's not law yet but LL/tenants could get round it and save a lot of paperwork by allowing LL's permission to keep to the original protection scheme and just amend the dates.

I'm off to fire off yet another email to the letting agent

This almost makes me think it's easier to allow the tenants to leave when they want to rather than go down n5b route and risk losing £280 for not getting it right. It's unfair as we've got a LA to ensure its right. The tenants think they will be out 28 June as they are due to exchange and complete on a new house.

Thanks again for all your support. I will make a donation to charity as a thank you

Cabbage

booksurr

cabbage wrote: »

Hi

Heard from LA. They say the deposit doesn't have to be re protected and the tenant only has to pay for the days he's in the property not for the whole month.

If the deposit needs re protecting then the LA has dropped a googlie and section 21 is not valid. I will have a look at the link now.

Thanks for the continued advice

oh dear - agents strike again

where a tenancy is renewed then the deposit does not have to be physically re-protected (as it already is protected) BUT the proscribed information must be reissued if a new (fixed) tenancy is signed (or a SPT is started after the end of a fixed tenancy). So the info should have been reissued on 21 Dec 13 and if the tenant claims it was not or your agents cannot prove it was, your S21 will be invalid - if it gets that far in court of course

in law a rental period is indivisible, so stay one day and you owe rent for the whole period. Naturally you as LL may waive that right and may accept a pro rata rent, but it is your decision, not your agent's role to tell you that you must take part payment