Should I get a smart meter?

lstar337

GingerBob wrote: »

No. Right ( as usual ). You need to get the terminology correct, especially since you're a meter reader. The discussion relates to bypassing the meter, i.e. tapping into the cable on the supply side of the meter. Please explain how smart meters will stop this.

Um...

If you by-pass to the supply side of the meter, the meter will suddenly register 'no usage' (which is very unlikely to happen in a normal household) which would no doubt trigger an investigation into said property.

Not only that, but they can measure load at the local transformer and compare it against the meter reads in real-time to determine any energy theft which can be investigated.

Finally, I believe that unless you completely remove the incoming conductor from the meter (something which would also trigger a tamper signal to be sent to supplier/DNO), then the meter can also detect a back-flow of ions when a direct by-pass is in place.

Now these are just the measures that I know about through a little research. I is not crazy to assume that there may be other measures which are not public knowledge!

Understandably Smarts are not going to stop by-passing at the flick of a switch, but they will make it harder to get away with!

lstar337

matelodave wrote: »

There might not be a legal compulsion to have one but the suppliers might make a condition of supply.
In the end if you want gas or leccy in your home you'll have to accept it via whatever metering the company requires.

Hopefully non-smarts will be forced to specialist suppliers with much higher prices. That way the rest of us will not have to pay for all the extra administration costs, extra staff, and meter reader contract costs.

GingerBob_3

matelodave wrote: »

I'm sure you've lived long enough to know that what a government lays down as a law can easily be amended by a subsequent one, so don't expect that you'll be able to stave it off for ever.
Likewise the energy firms might start to insist that you have one so you may have to keep swapping supplier to find one that doesn't. There might not be a legal compulsion to have one but the suppliers might make a condition of supply.
In the end if you want gas or leccy in your home you'll have to accept it via whatever metering the company requires.

Thank you for that prediction. It's about as valid as one that says the exact opposite. In other words, you don't know, I don't know, know-one knows.

GingerBob_3

lstar337 wrote: »

Um...

If you by-pass to the supply side of the meter, the meter will suddenly register 'no usage' (which is very unlikely to happen in a normal household) which would no doubt trigger an investigation into said property.

I don't think anyone would be daft enough to bypass the meter completely, just tee into the line before the meter and run the heavy stuff off the bypass.

lstar337 wrote: »

Not only that, but they can measure load at the local transformer and compare it against the meter reads in real-time to determine any energy theft which can be investigated.

Are you joking? The chance of there being a complete reconciliation is zero; transmission loss, variability of meter accuracy, not to mention the potentially 1000s of properties supplied by the "local" transformer.

lstar337 wrote: »

Finally, I believe that unless you completely remove the incoming conductor from the meter (something which would also trigger a tamper signal to be sent to supplier/DNO), then the meter can also detect a back-flow of ions when a direct by-pass is in place.

I think you've been reading too much science fiction.

[Deleted User]

GingerBob wrote: »

Thank you for that prediction. It's about as valid as one that says the exact opposite. In other words, you don't know, I don't know, know-one knows.

The only reason you have been able to refuse smarts is because a handful of wet Lib/Dems put their wimpy hands up in Parliament and voted against it being compulsory. The same MPs who recently voted to decriminalise TV licence evasion. The next election virtually all these gutless wonders will be swept away and hopefully we will get another vote and get these MPs to understand the seriousness of allowing a section of the population to get away with living off the backs of the others and makes smarts 100% compulsory.
Did you read my earlier post ? in over 5 years of reading smart meters for British Gas I honestly have nt found one smart meter bypassed/tampered or whatever you fancy calling it. As I say..that statistic tells it all

joncombe

Preventing or reducing energy theft is certainly an advantage but that isn't to say smart meters don't have disadvantages too.

They know not just how much energy you are using but when. I think at some point this will result in compulsory peak/off peak charging which I suspect will make it more expensive for the majority of people. At the moment you can choose something similar (Economy 7) but these deals only make sense for users that use most energy at these times, as the day units are much more expensive. There are also possible security implications since as others have noted it makes it easy for people with access to the data to work out when you are on holiday (and certainly easier than driving round and taking a look). Probably not a major worry but still it is a possibility, especially if readings are sent regularly (e.g. daily).

Then there is the concept of Smart Appliances. As I understand it, these can be linked to the meter and signals can be sent from the meter to the appliance to ask it to shut down or reduce usage at periods of high demand. Not everyone wants their appliances being controlled remotely but I suspect at some point the governemnt/EU will mandate all new appliances must be smart, so we won't have a choice. It is another thing to go wrong too (what if a badly formatted or corrupt message causes the control software to crash?). I also think we will have an energy crisis in the not too distant future, since we are shutting down so many existing power stations and not replacing much of the capacity (solar can't generate electricity at night, wind can't when it isn't windy). This might lead to measures where some smart appliances (e.g. tumble driers) can be remotely disabled at periods of peak demand.

Then there are issues over logistics. For example my gas meter is outside the house in a box on the wall (I don't know who owns the box, me or the energy distributor), but it has no electricity supply. So if it is compulsory to have a smart meter (which requires power) who will pay for the cost of fitting it and who will be responsible for ensuring the box the meter is in is (and remains) water tight (since I imagine these aren't waterproof)? And who pays for the electric the meter will consume? Will the gas cut off if the meter loses power (e.g. a power cut?).

Then there is the situation that the supply can be cut off remotely. This is fair enough if someone has repeatably been avoiding payment, but suppliers make mistakes (you only have to see the number of people that have problems with NPower). So what if a computer system thinks you haven't paid and cuts your power off but either you have paid or you've never had a bill?

I also have concerns that if I go on holiday for a couple of weeks (or longer) and so the system notices my usage has dropped to zero (or near zero) someone will be round demanding to inspect the meters, on the assumption they have been bypassed.

To be honest I think energy suppliers should do as water companies do and move their meters to be outside of peoples houses on the public highway (e.g. on the poles where the wires split to each house). Then they can be inspected at any time without wasted visits because no one is home and the meter is inside. It would also be much easier to spot bypassed meters and probably act as a deterrent since they could be seen doing it.

[Deleted User]

a few things here. The suppliers have virtually given up trying to stop bypass/tampers as its cheaper for them not to run expensive Revenue Protection Units ( British Gas excepted ) Its cheaper and more profitable to let us pick up the tab in the form of approx £30 a year for bypass and a larger amount for the intentional bad debtors/renters.. EDF/EON/N.Power run very low budget outfits. EDFs RPU in particular is virtually non existent and a disgrace. Smarts will help do what the suppliers refuse to do
The gas smart is fitted with a "sender " to send the reading wirelessly to the electric meter which has a sim card in it and sends the reading via, ( I think initially a Vodofone satellite and thence locks onto whichever other satrllites is a better signal.
The meter box is your property.
and possibly they will end up charging for peak periods, so that will give us money savers a chance to use the cheaper times for the big energy usage in some way I suppose.
The main thing with smarts is that they can be remotely configured to prepay mode, so if they refuse to pay bills then its down to them if they run out of lecky/gas. No one gets cut off much in the UK nowadays, mores the pity

joncombe

sacsquacco wrote: »

The gas smart is fitted with a "sender " to send the reading wirelessly to the electric meter which has a sim card in it and sends the reading via, ( I think initially a Vodofone satellite and thence locks onto whichever other satrllites is a better signal.

What is the "sender" powered by?

GingerBob_3

sacsquacco wrote: »

The gas smart is fitted with a "sender " to send the reading wirelessly to the electric meter which has a sim card in it and sends the reading via, ( I think initially a Vodofone satellite and thence locks onto whichever other satrllites is a better signal.

I guess this is a mobile phone SIM transmitting via the mobile phone network. But yes, what powers the gas smart meter (I think you said it was a battery)? One thing I can assure you of; nothing is being transmitted to a satellite.

sacsquacco wrote: »

No one gets cut off much in the UK nowadays, mores the pity

I think we really are now seeing you in your true colours.

Richie-from-the-Boro

.1. of .3. - We need smart - its the best or only bet to get rid of 'sticky's'

In 2010 some 300,000 replacement cards / keys were issued that result in cost and inconvenience to customers. 8,500 prepayment meters are installed every week to recover debt, which I and we are paying for, the current switching rules as can be seen from these threads sometimes take months, that could be shortened to 12 hours with a smart meter, let the public decide on their preferred 'cooling off period. Once a fiddler or a landlord has a pre-payment installed, its there, forever hurting the next decent honest renter for that property who is unable unlock the benefits pay as you go energy, that would disappear with a smart meter. Small suppliers and even small business in the non domestic sector such as the corner shop and local boozer should be considered for smart meter inclusion.

If we don't get rid of sticky's the market will not and can never work, unless we get rid of sticky's this conversation will still be had in another 20 years time. In 20 years time the suppliers will still be there with their oversized wheelbarrow's hauling our cash away providing a service we can't do without and can not make competitive. It would be both a general observation and a specific to sticky's comment that all suppliers tend to charge far more for electricity to those customers who live in their 'home' region - the areas where they enjoyed a monopoly before energy deregulation in the 1990's. Using EDF Energy, as an example, they charge their highest prices in their three home regions, so if you live in Bristol (Sweb), Brighton (Seeboard) and London you will pay, respectively, £959, £945 and £939 a year for the same Energy Online Saver 6 tariff. Customers on the same plan and using the same amount of energy in Nottingham (East Midlands) pay just £865.

Unsurprisingly this consumer behaviour has brought about a two-tier market in which 'sticky' customers are charged less-competitive prices, while engaged 'switchers' can get much cheaper deals.The marketing departments therefore target deals at those who might be active switch [ers] and ignore the as many as 5 million customers could be being overcharged to "cross-subsidise" cheaper deals. So switching away will almost always save you money, you only need to be interested in the tariff that is going to be cheapest where you live, so do your own comparison to find the best price.

Ginger bob