Tenants won't leave

chelle_belle

Hi,

I've got myself in a predicament for which I only have myself to blame.

5yrs ago I bought a house which I immediately started to let out without telling my mortgage company.

Up to now everything has ran smoothly. Just over a year ago I let to new tenants. I took employment details, they signed an AST and i have kept up to date with my landlord gas certificate.

A couple of weeks ago I received a text message saying that both tenants had lost their jobs and they needed me to complete a form so they could claim housing benefit. I informed them that I could not accept housing benefit tenants as my mortgage did not allow it (a truth of sorts). We agreed that as they could no longer afford to live at the property they would move out on the 15th June and i would return their deposit. This was confirmed in writing by email.

Earlier this week they informed me that they could not move out as they had nowhere to go as the girlfriend did not want to live in a shared house and they wanted a council house. I told them that they should honour our agreement and move out on the 15th. I appealed to their better nature telling them that I too am a young person struggling, i have never made a penny profit on the house and worked very hard to buy it for my future. I too have rent AND a mortgage to pay. Unsurprisingly this made no impact.

Yesterday I received a call from a woman at the council advising me that she had told them to withdraw their notice intending to leave and she had told them to stay in the property and wait to be evicted as if they leave before then they are voluntarily making themselves homeless and are not entitled to a council house.

So, I have posted a Section 21 (periodic tenancy) notice to the house and obtained proof of postage. However, through my own complacency I believe the process is not going to be straightforward for the following reasons:

1) I do not have a signed copy of the AST, the tenants have the only signed copy and I believe they are saying they have lost it. I do have a copy of the AST, just not a signed one.

2) I secured the deposit with the DPS and emailed the tenants telling them that this is what I am doing and that the DPS will be in touch with them regarding their reference number and repayment ID. Is this enough notice?

3) I have sent the section 21 notice but am now worried I have put the wrong date on it, as they have been paying their rent each month on the 15th I have put the 15th August 2014 but have since read that I should have put the 14th as this is the last day of a tenancy period. Do I now post another Section 21 with the 14th September on??

4) Do I have to inform my mortgage company and what are the likely implications of this? I know that they could forfeit my mortgage as I have breached the terms but seeing as I have never missed a payment and will continue to pay the mortgage throughout this process is that a likely outcome?

5) Once the Section 21 notice has expired I presume I can't issue accelerated possession proceedings due to my lack of a signed AST. How will I be able to issue a claim for possession without a signed AST?

Any constructive advice would be very gratefully received. Please please don't just berate me for my stupidity.

Thanks

vectistim

AIUI in the absence of paperwork to the contrary the default assumption is an AST, so the lack of the physical copy shouldn't be too much of an issue.
The council won't do anything about re-housing them until the court has ordered possession.

Game_Over

chelle_belle wrote: »

4) Do I have to inform my mortgage company and what are the likely implications of this?

Yes you should inform your lender, but then I think you already know that.

chelle_belle wrote: »

I know that they could forfeit my mortgage as I have breached the terms but seeing as I have never missed a payment and will continue to pay the mortgage throughout this process is that a likely outcome?.

Assuming they are prepared to grant permission to let, then unlikely.
A higher interest rate may apply, and if so, that may be backdated to when you first started letting the property.

Have you told the insurance company?

G_M

chelle_belle wrote: »

Hi,





Yesterday I received a call from a woman at the council advising me that she had told them to withdraw their notice intending to leave and she had told them to stay in the property and wait to be evicted as if they leave before then they are voluntarily making themselves homeless and are not entitled to a council house.
correct council advice

So, I have posted a Section 21 (periodic tenancy)
you mean a S21 (4)(a)? Why? Easier to serve a S21 (1)(b) with 2 calender months (see link below).
Did you get the dates right on the S21 4a?

1) I do not have a signed copy of the AST, the tenants have the only signed copy and I believe they are saying they have lost it. I do have a copy of the AST, just not a signed one.
You have been receiving rent. The tenants have been provided a property. An AST exists whether written or not, whether you have a copy or not.

2) I secured the deposit with the DPS
When? it sounds like you have just done this, in which case your S21 is invalid. Please confirm
* date you received the deposit
* date you secured the deposit
and emailed the tenants telling them that this is what I am doing and that the DPS will be in touch with them regarding their reference number and repayment ID. Is this enough notice?
No - you also have to issue the 'Prescribed Information ' though I suspect it is too late now

3) I have sent the section 21 notice but am now worried I have put the wrong date on it, as they have been paying their rent each month on the 15th I have put the 15th August 2014 but have since read that I should have put the 14th as this is the last day of a tenancy period. Do I now post another Section 21 with the 14th September on??
Date rent is paid is irrelevant. It is the dates of the tenancy periods that matters. What date did the original fixed term end?

4) Do I have to inform my mortgage company and what are the likely implications of this? I know that they could forfeit my mortgage as I have breached the terms but seeing as I have never missed a payment and will continue to pay the mortgage throughout this process is that a likely outcome?
No point telling them at this point. You have enough problems at present!

5) Once the Section 21 notice has expired I presume I can't issue accelerated possession proceedings due to my lack of a signed AST. How will I be able to issue a claim for possession without a signed AST?
Enclose unsigned copy, evidence of rent receipt, and explain loos of signed copy

Any constructive advice would be very gratefully received. Please please don't just berate me for my stupidity.

Thanks

Unless you both secured the deposit, AND issued the Prescribed Information, within 30 days of the tenants paying it, any S21 will be invalid.

In that case:

* return the deposit in full
* then issue a new S21 (1)(b) with 2 calender months

See

Ending/Renewing an AST (what happens when the Fixed Term ends?)(What is a Periodic Tenancy?)(How can a LL remove a tenant?)(How can a tenant end a tenancy?)

Irrelevant to your current enquiry/problem, but I hope

* you have been declaring the rent to HMRC
* you have LLs insurance

See also

[FONT=&quot]New Landlords[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (information for new or prospective landlords)[/FONT]

Game_Over

G_M wrote: »

No point telling them at this point. You have enough problems at present!

The OP has had over 5 years to tell them.

How long would you say they should continue to hold off for?

Okydoky25

This is going to be a very long and probably expensive process (and lesson) for you.

Have you thought of negotiating a cash incentive for them to move?

Pixie5740

What's the big deal with letting them claim housing benefit and stay in the property? They get somewhere to live and you get the rental income. That's a win win situation. Telling your tenantsthat your mortgage provider won't allow the place to be let to those on housing benfits is not a "tuth of sorts". You are not supposed to be letting the property to anyone! You applied for a residential mortgage when your intention was to let out property from the get-go. This is fraud so it's a bit rich saying your tenants haven't stuck to their end of the bargin when you are committing fraud.

The alternative is that you receive no rental income, spend time and money taking the tenants to court to get them evicted, and end up with a rental void. Also since you have behaved like an eejit your tenants might be more likely to sue you for non-protection of their deposit.

G_M

Game_Over wrote: »

The OP has had over 5 years to tell them.

How long would you say they should continue to hold off for?

I don't disagree that OP should have sought CTL years ago.

But right now he has other issues. Once the tenants are out he can decide either to

* sell
* move in himself
* or re-let - and do it properly !

chelle_belle

Hi G_M,

Thanks for your advice.

Please could you just expand on what the difference is between a S21(4)(a) and a Section 21 (4) (b)? In the 21 (4)(a) i have given the 2 months notice, The date of the AST is 13th April 2013 and was a 6 month agreement so what date should I be putting on the section 21? Also it is acceptable to just send a new Section 21 with a note saying it supersedes the previous?

I secured the deposit with the DPS on 15th April 2013 and have an email confirming this. They then write to the Tenant confirming that the deposit has been received. Is this not sufficient notice?

I have been declaring the rent to HMRC and completed annual self assessments and also have landlords insurance.

Thanks again

chelle_belle

Okydoky25 wrote: »

This is going to be a very long and probably expensive process (and lesson) for you.

Have you thought of negotiating a cash incentive for them to move?

How would I even go about this? What's stopping them from taking the money and staying put?

louiserer

G_M wrote: »

* you have been declaring the rent to HMRC
* you have LLs insurance

See also

[FONT=&quot]New Landlords[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (information for new or prospective landlords)[/FONT]

Do you have to inform HMRC even if your rent is not enough to cover the mortgage payment?