Tenants won't leave

louiserer

benjus wrote: »

Yes, all income needs to be declared even if it's all tax-deductible. HMRC are running a campaign at the moment: https://www.gov.uk/let-property-campaign - I would expect not to have to pay any penalty as you made no profit. You do realise that only the interest component of the mortgage is tax deductible, not the capital repayments, right?

No, I don't really understand.

My property is let through an agent. I have a consent to let on my mortgage.

kmmr

Your S21 notice is invalid due to the failure to provide the prescribed information to the tenants in the 30 days. So dates are an irrelevance at this stage - you need to sort out the deposit. On Landlord zone the general advice is that you have to give it back and then re-issue the S21.

Why not allow HB and also send the S21. Then you are being paid while waiting for eviction - which could be a very long time as you haven't dealt with the deposit correctly. Plus councils sometimes advise tenants to stay in place until possession is granted by the courts. And a court will not issue a PO if there are procedural errors, which your failure to prescribed information would be.

The only glimmer of hope I can see is that you accepted their notice to leave. You could not accept the withdrawal of this notice, although your actions since may have scuppered that chance.

Can any of the legal eagles on here advise if a notice to quit by the TENANTS can be withdrawn without landlords consent?

kmmr

louiserer wrote: »

No, I don't really understand.

My property is let through an agent. I have a consent to let on my mortgage.

Your mortgage payment is part interest/part capital repayment. At the end of each year your mortgage provider will send you a summary of interest vs capital.

eg:

Total : £11,000
Interest: £5,200
Capital: £5,800

When working out your profit from renting, you use the interest amount only. If you received, say, £10,000 in rent, and spent £1,000 on maintenance and other costs you can subtract this from your income, as well as the £5,200, leaving you with a profit of £3,800 which is added to your income. And taxed.

Otherwise you could just keep increasing your mortgage payment to exactly match your rental income and never pay any tax.

chelle_belle

kmmr wrote: »

Your S21 notice is invalid due to the failure to provide the prescribed information to the tenants in the 30 days. So dates are an irrelevance at this stage - you need to sort out the deposit. On Landlord zone the general advice is that you have to give it back and then re-issue the S21.

Why not allow HB and also send the S21. Then you are being paid while waiting for eviction - which could be a very long time as you haven't dealt with the deposit correctly. Plus councils sometimes advise tenants to stay in place until possession is granted by the courts. And a court will not issue a PO if there are procedural errors, which your failure to prescribed information would be.

The only glimmer of hope I can see is that you accepted their notice to leave. You could not accept the withdrawal of this notice, although your actions since may have scuppered that chance.

Can any of the legal eagles on here advise if a notice to quit by the TENANTS can be withdrawn without landlords consent?

Thanks very much for your advice kmmr.

I realise now that I was hasty in firing off the S21 without first checking the facts but seeing as this is invalid due to my not providing the prescribed information and potentially getting the date wrong can this be ignored in the interim? If so should I contact the tenants asking them to ignore it saying that i got the date wrong? I know that makes me look foolish but i'm going to have to live with that. Incidently they haven't notified me that they are withdrawing their notice to leave, i was informed this by the council. They still have until the 15th June to leave although obviously they are not going to do this given the advice they've had.

I have spoken with the DPS and they have confirmed that I should have sent prescribed information to the tenant which I did not do. Another of my mistakes it seems. I thought that securing the Deposit with them and them informing the tenant was enough. Despite my errors I really have been tying to do the right thing.

Do you think then I should contact the council, allowing them to claim HB (although now i'm relying on the tenants to forward to HB on to me), repay the deposit as I haven't followed correct procedures and then re issue a S21 so that I can submit a claim for possession through the courts? I know it seems harsh to let them claim HB and then issue a S21 but i feel that relations have broken down between us now and i'd rather start a fresh with new tenants and making sure it's all above board. Whilst fault lays largely with me during this debacle there has been some very underhand tactics played by them also and the trust is gone. If i return the deposit and then issue the S21 does this effect any claim for possession i submit to the court?

RAS

chelle_belle wrote: »

The date of the AST is 13th April 2013 and was a 6 month agreement so what date should I be putting on the section 21?......................I secured the deposit with the DPS on 15th April 2013 and have an email confirming this. They then write to the Tenant confirming that the deposit has been received. Is this not sufficient notice?

AS G_M explained

No. As previously explained you need to issue the 'Prescribed Information '

It is now 13 June so you cannot issue notice this month.

You failed to issue the prescribed information when first securing the deposit in April 2013?

It appears from the above that when the tenancy became periodic, you failed to re-secure the deposit?

Have you actually checked with the DPS to ensure it is still secured? Have you re-issued the precsribed information.

If not, your S21 is invalid.

The only thing you can do is pay back the deposit in full and pray that they do not learn about the potential for claiming the up to 3 times penalty.

Then re-issue a S21 later in the month.

With luck and a good wind you may have them out by next March.

chelle_belle wrote: »

They already received a sum of money from the council which i'm sure I will never see.

So they have almost certainly been in receipt of some LHA all the time???

Just sign the form and let them claim so you get your rent paid. And Issue the S21.

kmmr

chelle_belle wrote: »

Thanks very much for your advice kmmr.

I realise now that I was hasty in firing off the S21 without first checking the facts but seeing as this is invalid due to my not providing the prescribed information and potentially getting the date wrong can this be ignored in the interim?

Ignored by who? What you mean is hope no-one notices. Maybe the tenants don't realise and will leave. Maybe the council will find them a new place. BUT - if you get to court (in 3-5 months) they won't ignore it, and you will have to start again.

chelle_belle wrote: »

If so should I contact the tenants asking them to ignore it saying that i got the date wrong? I know that makes me look foolish but i'm going to have to live with that. Incidently they haven't notified me that they are withdrawing their notice to leave, i was informed this by the council. They still have until the 15th June to leave although obviously they are not going to do this given the advice they've had.

I am not sure how to fix this. I'd go onto the landlordzone website as they have experts. Plus there is somewhere there who runs an agency who will do it for you for a fee. Might be cheaper in the long run.

Re the notice, I'd just write to them confirming you accept the notice, and will be there for check-out on x date. After that date the AST no longer exists, and you can apply immediately to have them removed. This ONLY works when a tenant gives notice, not when a LL gives notice.

chelle_belle wrote: »

I have spoken with the DPS and they have confirmed that I should have sent prescribed information to the tenant which I did not do. Another of my mistakes it seems. I thought that securing the Deposit with them and them informing the tenant was enough. Despite my errors I really have been tying to do the right thing.

Do you think then I should contact the council, allowing them to claim HB (although now i'm relying on the tenants to forward to HB on to me), repay the deposit as I haven't followed correct procedures and then re issue a S21 so that I can submit a claim for possession through the courts? I know it seems harsh to let them claim HB and then issue a S21 but i feel that relations have broken down between us now and i'd rather start a fresh with new tenants and making sure it's all above board. Whilst fault lays largely with me during this debacle there has been some very underhand tactics played by them also and the trust is gone. If i return the deposit and then issue the S21 does this effect any claim for possession i submit to the court?

I'm not sure if doing that would mean you have implicitly accepted the withdrawal of their notice. Rock and a hard place really.

Sorry, I'm not an expert. I understand you want them out and I understand why (sort of). If you really want to push this then I'd suggest you join a LL association or at least have a look are more specialist sites.

RAS

kmmr wrote: »

I am not sure how to fix this. I'd go onto the landlordzone website as they have experts. Plus there is somewhere there who runs an agency who will do it for you for a fee. Might be cheaper in the long run.

Agreed.

Given that none of us can see what paperwork you have got and it is too late to issue the S21 again for an August exit, I really think you need to re-trench, find a specialist on the landlordzone and pay them to sort it out for the you.

You could all too easily get to court in the autumn and find that because you got it wrong this week, your whole case is in validated and you have to start from scratch.

thorsoak

Have you now notified your mortgage company and obtained their consent to the letting of their mortgaged property?

Morglin

Don't you just love these amateur landlords?

Not told the mortgage company, probably not told the Revenue, nothing done properly - if advised correctly by the council, these tenants are going to have a field day!

One more reason to bring in landlord licensing....:wall:

Lin :doh:

RAS

Thankfully chelle_belle has informed the HMRC

chelle_belle wrote: »

I have been declaring the rent to HMRC and completed annual self assessments and also have landlords insurance.

loiuserer has not

louiserer wrote: »

No, I don't really understand.

My property is let through an agent. I have a consent to let on my mortgage.