Tenants won't leave

G_M

chelle_belle wrote: »

Hi G_M,

Please could you just expand on what the difference is between a S21(4)(a) and a Section 21 (4) (b)?

Read the link in my 1st post!

In the 21 (4)(a) i have given the 2 months notice, The date of the AST is 13th April 2013 and was a 6 month agreement so what date should I be putting on the section 21?

Read the link in my 1st post!

Also it is acceptable to just send a new Section 21 with a note saying it supersedes the previous?

Yes

I secured the deposit with the DPS on 15th April 2013 and have an email confirming this. They then write to the Tenant confirming that the deposit has been received. Is this not sufficient notice?

No. As previously explained you need to issue the 'Prescribed Information '

If after reading the links provided you still don't understand, ask again.

See also

Deposits (Rules on deposit protection)

Localism Act 2011 (section 184 - updates to deposit scheme rules) Plain English explanation!

Prescribed Information (RLA links to various deposit schemes' documentation)

chelle_belle

This is why i posted a Section 21 (4)(a):

Section 21 notices served during a periodic tenancy

Once the fixed term of the tenancy ends, unless a new fixed term is agreed upon a tenancy automatically becomes what is called a statutory periodic tenancy which rolls from week to week or month to month depending on how often rent is paid.

The procedure for serving notice under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 is slightly different in the case of statutory periodic tenancies.

Section 21(4)(a) of the Housing Act 1988 applies to assured shorthold tenancies that have become periodic and states:

"Without prejudice to any such right as is referred to in subsection (1) above, a court shall make an order for possession of a dwelling house let on an assured shorthold tenancy which is a periodic tenancy if the court is satisfied-

(a) that the landlord or, in the case of joint landlords, at least one of them has given to the tenant a notice stating that, after a date specified in the notice, being the last day of a period of the tenancy and not earlier than two months after the date the notice was given, possession of the dwelling-house is required by virtue of this section; and

(b) that the date specified in the notice under paragraph (a) above is not earlier than the earliest day on which, ........, the tenancy could be brought to an end by a notice to quit given by the landlord on the same date as the notice under paragraph (a) above "

A Section 21 notice complying with the above section should only be given to a tenant whose tenancy has become a periodic tenancy as a result of the fixed term ending. In these cases, a minimum of two months' notice is required and the day on which the notice expires must be the last day of a period of the tenancy.

The period of a tenancy depends on how often the rent is paid. If rent is paid monthly the period of the tenancy is one month, if the rent is paid weekly the period of tenancy is one week and so forth. The periodic tenancy begins immediately after the fixed term expires, so if the fixed term expires on the 10th then the period of the tenancy begins on the 11th, so provided rent was paid monthly the last day of each period of tenancy would be the10th of each month. Therefore the Section 21 notice would have to expire on the 10th of a month and be served a minimum of two months before the tenth of that month.

Although i'm unsure as to what date to put on the notice as the tenancy started on 13th April 2013 for 6 months but rent was paid on 15th of each month.

Thanks

Tiddlywinks

Okydoky25 wrote: »

This is going to be a very long and probably expensive process (and lesson) for you.

Have you thought of negotiating a cash incentive for them to move?

The tenants have both lost their jobs so would find it difficult to rent privately. They need to be evicted (or under threat of eviction) for the local council to help them.

Offering them money won't help them with their ongoing housing situation so how is that an incentive to move?

jbainbridge

chelle_belle wrote: »

Up to now everything has ran smoothly.

Why have you not given them a chance? What reason have you to suspect they won't pay the rent?

benjus

louiserer wrote: »

Do you have to inform HMRC even if your rent is not enough to cover the mortgage payment?

Yes, all income needs to be declared even if it's all tax-deductible. HMRC are running a campaign at the moment: https://www.gov.uk/let-property-campaign - I would expect not to have to pay any penalty as you made no profit. You do realise that only the interest component of the mortgage is tax deductible, not the capital repayments, right?

dktreesea

Why won't you accept housing benefit? Housing benefit is there for the landlord's benefit, not the tenants. They don't care whether you get paid or not. they have just lost their jobs. The solution is that the state takes over the payment of their rent to the landlord. If you can't accept the solution, for whatever reason, then in the short term, until the court gives you back possession, you will have to forgo the rent, and cover your mortgage from other funds or your landlord's insurance.

chelle_belle

dktreesea wrote: »

Why won't you accept housing benefit? Housing benefit is there for the landlord's benefit, not the tenants. They don't care whether you get paid or not. they have just lost their jobs. The solution is that the state takes over the payment of their rent to the landlord. If you can't accept the solution, for whatever reason, then in the short term, until the court gives you back possession, you will have to forgo the rent, and cover your mortgage from other funds or your landlord's insurance.

As eastern europeans i'm not even sure they can claim housing benefit long term. They already received a sum of money from the council which i'm sure I will never see. The issue of housing benefit for me now is irrelevant. This problem is going to come up again sooner or later with these tenants even if i accept housing benefit from them so now I just want to serve the correct S21 Notice and give them what they want which is an eviction so they can get their council house and I can re let the property properly and a bit poorer but wiser from this experience.

Pixie5740

chelle_belle wrote: »

As eastern europeans i'm not even sure they can claim housing benefit long term. They already received a sum of money from the council which i'm sure I will never see. The issue of housing benefit for me now is irrelevant. This problem is going to come up again sooner or later with these tenants even if i accept housing benefit from them so now I just want to serve the correct S21 Notice and give them what they want which is an eviction so they can get their council house and I can re let the property properly and a bit poorer but wiser from this experience.

You know that a section 21 notice won't actually evict the tenants though right? Only the tenants or a court can end a tenancy. You might find that the council advise the tenants to dig their heels in and wait until you get an eviction notice from court and the bailiffs are physically removing them from your property.

RAS

chelle_belle wrote: »

. We agreed that as they could no longer afford to live at the property they would move out on the 15th June and i would return their deposit. This was confirmed in writing by email.

Earlier this week they informed me that they could not move out as they had nowhere to go as the girlfriend did not want to live in a shared house and they wanted a council house. I told them that they should honour our agreement and move out on the 15th. I appealed to their better nature telling them that I too am a young person struggling, i have never made a penny profit on the house and worked very hard to buy it for my future. I too have rent AND a mortgage to pay. Unsurprisingly this made no impact.

Yesterday I received a call from a woman at the council advising me that she had told them to withdraw their notice intending to leave and she had told them to stay in the property and wait to be evicted as if they leave before then they are voluntarily making themselves homeless and are not entitled to a council house.

Did your tenancy agreement allow them to give notice by e-mail?

Did you ever get notice from the tenants in WRITING (pen and paper0?

AndyT678

chelle_belle wrote: »

I just want to serve the correct S21 Notice and give them what they want which is an eviction so they can get their council house.

You do realise that this is not going to happen in September and that the Section 21 is only the 1st step in a long process right?