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Did our vendors lie on property information form
Halle71
Posts: 514 Forumite
I thought it would be a cut and dry answer but, now I have found the paperwork it is a bit more ambiguous...
We bought a house in 2009 with an extension the vendors had built in 2006 and now we are selling it we have found it does not have final building regs approval/certificate. This was overlooked by our solicitor who concluded that there was 'nothing onerous or unreasonable' despite the same document containing information about the extension and a certificate of lawfulness but no building regs certificate... This is being investoigated by the legal ombudsman.
But are the vendors also at fault?
The current property information form that we have filled in is very clear - it asks about alterations then asked specifically if you have a building regs certificate for the works.
Apparently the form wasn't as clear in 2009 (or did they select a form that allowed them some ambiguity?).
They admit to the extension built in 2006.
They are then asked if any works are unfinished to which they answer 'no'.
They are then asked if there are any outstanding planning or building control issues to resolve to which to which they answer 'no' again.
Surely, if they have built an extension and they do not have a completion certificate, this is an outstanding building control issue? And if so then they have clearly lied on their paperwork.
We bought a house in 2009 with an extension the vendors had built in 2006 and now we are selling it we have found it does not have final building regs approval/certificate. This was overlooked by our solicitor who concluded that there was 'nothing onerous or unreasonable' despite the same document containing information about the extension and a certificate of lawfulness but no building regs certificate... This is being investoigated by the legal ombudsman.
But are the vendors also at fault?
The current property information form that we have filled in is very clear - it asks about alterations then asked specifically if you have a building regs certificate for the works.
Apparently the form wasn't as clear in 2009 (or did they select a form that allowed them some ambiguity?).
They admit to the extension built in 2006.
They are then asked if any works are unfinished to which they answer 'no'.
They are then asked if there are any outstanding planning or building control issues to resolve to which to which they answer 'no' again.
Surely, if they have built an extension and they do not have a completion certificate, this is an outstanding building control issue? And if so then they have clearly lied on their paperwork.
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Comments
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I thought it would be a cut and dry answer but, now I have found the paperwork it is a bit more ambiguous...
We bought a house in 2009 with an extension the vendors had built in 2006 and now we are selling it we have found it does not have final building regs approval/certificate. This was overlooked by our solicitor who concluded that there was 'nothing onerous or unreasonable' despite the same document containing information about the extension and a certificate of lawfulness but no building regs certificate... This is being investoigated by the legal ombudsman.
But are the vendors also at fault?
The current property information form that we have filled in is very clear - it asks about alterations then asked specifically if you have a building regs certificate for the works.
Apparently the form wasn't as clear in 2009 (or did they select a form that allowed them some ambiguity?).
They admit to the extension built in 2006.
They are then asked if any works are unfinished to which they answer 'no'.
They are then asked if there are any outstanding planning or building control issues to resolve to which to which they answer 'no' again.
Surely, if they have built an extension and they do not have a completion certificate, this is an outstanding building control issue? And if so then they have clearly lied on their paperwork.
It was not an issue for them. I would be chasing your solicitor if he knew about the work not being signed off.0 -
Why? What do you want to do about it?
If they are at fault we want compensation for the costs we will incur to get us back to where we would be had it had a building regs certificate......
Like I said, with the current forms it would black and white but with the form they used it is ambiguous.0 -
It was not an issue for them. I would be chasing your solicitor if he knew about the work not being signed off.
The solicitor has gone into administration so the legal ombudsman in investigating and we will be able to claim from their insure if found negligent.
According to building regs themselves there is an issue - they were invited to inspect a build that was covered so they couldn't see anything, then were not invited to inspect again until the build was complete so none of the structure was ever inspected.
How can this not be an 'issue'?0 -
Why do you keep starting new threads?
It would be much easier to follow if everything was together.Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud.0 -
Alternatively...the vendors' assumed that whoever designed/planned and/or built the extension would make all of the necessary filings with the council to ensure the extension complies with legislation/regulation etc, and answered on that basis; despite it subsequently coming to light that this didn't happen.
Perhaps they also confused a certificate of lawfulness with approval under building regulations, who knows? Ignorance is not the same as wilful deception.
The fact of the matter is that the extension hasn't fallen down yet, is unlikely to fall down in the near future as a result of not having a piece of paper approving its construction, and, due to its age, isn't going to have the council demanding it be knocked down.
Furthermore, what have you loss have you suffered from either the vendors' not obtaining the necessary piece of paper, or for your solicitor not having raised this when your purchased the property? If haven't suffered any loss, you're unlikely to get any compensation (which I assume is what you're really after, despite the moral outrage over "vendor lies")
Finally, this is only an issue if you're trying to sell the place and your buyer gets the jitters about a missing bit of paper - in that case, I suggest responding along the lines of it not falling down, as per above.0 -
The solicitor has gone into administration so the legal ombudsman in investigating and we will be able to claim from their insure if found negligent.
According to building regs themselves there is an issue - they were invited to inspect a build that was covered so they couldn't see anything, then were not invited to inspect again until the build was complete so none of the structure was ever inspected.
How can this not be an 'issue'?
You sort of proved it wasn't by going ahead and buying the place anyway.0 -
ReadingTim wrote: »Alternatively...the vendors' assumed that whoever designed/planned and/or built the extension would make all of the necessary filings with the council to ensure the extension complies with legislation/regulation etc, and answered on that basis; despite it subsequently coming to light that this didn't happen.
Perhaps they also confused a certificate of lawfulness with approval under building regulations, who knows? Ignorance is not the same as wilful deception.
The fact of the matter is that the extension hasn't fallen down yet, is unlikely to fall down in the near future as a result of not having a piece of paper approving its construction, and, due to its age, isn't going to have the council demanding it be knocked down.
Furthermore, what have you loss have you suffered from either the vendors' not obtaining the necessary piece of paper, or for your solicitor not having raised this when your purchased the property? If haven't suffered any loss, you're unlikely to get any compensation (which I assume is what you're really after, despite the moral outrage over "vendor lies")
Finally, this is only an issue if you're trying to sell the place and your buyer gets the jitters about a missing bit of paper - in that case, I suggest responding along the lines of it not falling down, as per above.
This is my point.
We are under offer and our vendors are not yet aware of the issue. But maybe it doesn't matter if what you say is true - on the paperwork I filled in that we have building regs approval, certificate to follow. Because I believed we did. Ignorance.
But we are going to resubmit now we know.
In their position I would have serious concerns, not least because if problems I would have when I came to sell - lower my offer, pull out or demand they get building regs sign off before we proceed.
You can't have any experience in this area because, if they feel the same, of course there will be costs.
If they reduce their offer that reduction is a cost to us.
If the sale falls through there will be a cost.
We will have to apply for a regularisation certificate in order to make our house saleable. At very best this means hiring a builder to expose the roof construction, DPC and floor so they can be inspected then covered again. At worst there will be areas that are not compliant and we will have to take remedial action.
Should we be liable for these costs when the vendor's PIF is inaccurate and our solicitor failed to inform us of a lack of building regs apporval?
Maybe we should just lie as there seems no recourse for filling in the property information form innaccurately.0 -
You sort of proved it wasn't by going ahead and buying the place anyway.
Fine if every solicitor is negligent :rotfl:
We are on our second vendor - the first pulled out because their mortgage was rejected but not before they asked for the building regs certificate which was when I discovered the problem......0 -
I imagine it would be hard to prove if the vendors did lie.
Not the point but is it worth seeing if insurance can be purchased to cover possible future problems? I remember purchasing insurance when we found that a drain was under part of property. I am sure that someone with more knowledge than me can say if building regs are covered by such policies.
As has been pointed out it hasn't fallen down so may be just a case of giving buyer peace of mind.0
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