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Would taxing property values be fairer than the Council Tax?
Comments
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Don't really see your point. Most taxes are difficult to avoid by design. ...
Oh, I don't know. It can be pretty easy to 'avoid' paying IT and NIC; start a business and just don't tell HMRC. Getting around inheritance tax is pretty much a breeze as well; just make sure you don't own much when you die. It's quite difficult to hide a house though....Don't know why we're locked into the idea that the proportion we pay towards local services should be linked to the size of our houses.
There is that.
There is no reason in principle why a property tax should be exclusively used to fund local services. The link is mainly a question of tradition and practicality.0 -
Because it is simple and easy to collect, even very rich people now tend to pay property taxes whereas most don't pay income tax.
Apart from being factually incorrect there's still a logic problem.
If taxing income is seen as an adequate method for raising taxes nationally why do local taxes have to be linked to property values? Is there a link between property values and usage of services? Are owners of larger houses better able to pay? The links are tenuous at best.
It's the same problem when there's a discussion on stamp duty. Most of the 'radical' ideas are based on implementing a system which looks remarkably similar and only shifts the tax to someone else.
If we weren't such a nation of rent seekers we wouldn't need to keep dreaming up ever more elaborate methods of extracting wealth from the population.0 -
....The current system is not about property values, but relative values in a particular administrative area though. So separate rules would not be required for London.
The fact that the Joseph Rowntree proposal includes 'special arrangements' for London is a pretty big clue to the fact that they are indeed proposing a national property tax. Their conclusion relating to the redestributive nature of this tax probably would not apply if the tax rates were set by the local authorities.
It's rather an odd piece of work though. The study states that its purpose is to examine "two key questions: would taxing property values be fairer than the Council Tax, and could such a tax help to reduce house price volatility?".
However the Conclusion states "One key test of fairness is someone’s ability to pay tax from their current income. Taking this as our starting point implies a shift away from property taxation and towards local income tax", whilst making no comment whatsover about house price volatility. So the answers provided by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation to these "two key questions" appear to be 'no' and 'don't know'.
It's quite bizarre really.0 -
Some do.Not true. Very rich people pay the vast majority of income tax in the UK.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/abramovichs-opaque-route-to-riches-revealed-6256290.html0 -
Oh, I don't know. It can be pretty easy to 'avoid' paying IT and NIC; start a business and just don't tell HMRC. Getting around inheritance tax is pretty much a breeze as well; just make sure you don't own much when you die. It's quite difficult to hide a house though.
If it's that easy why doesn't everyone set up a business and neglect to tell HMRC?
It may be difficult to hide a house but tax collection wouldn't be as as simple as someone from the council knocking at the door and asking for a cheque because they can see a house. The introduction of a new tax will introduce a new set of avoidance measures with it - I doubt taxing physical objects is any less problematic than taxing income.
Isn't IHT meant to be avoided anyway so that people dispose of their assets into the economy before death? Surely the only IHT being paid is by people who fail to plan and those who die before their plans are finished. If the government were serious about raising money from dead people it wouldn't be so easy to avoid.0 -
If it's that easy why doesn't everyone set up a business and neglect to tell HMRC?....
The point is that some people do indeed do just exactly that. It is possible to hide a business from HMRC. It's much harder to hide a house from HMRC....It may be difficult to hide a house....
There you go.:).... but tax collection wouldn't be as as simple as someone from the council knocking at the door and asking for a cheque because they can see a house. ....
That's basically how council tax works. There's a house. Send the occupier a bill.....The introduction of a new tax will introduce a new set of avoidance measures with it - I doubt taxing physical objects is any less problematic than taxing income. ....
Depends on the physical object concerned. As far as property is concerned it's much less problematic. Property taxes typically have a high collection rate and a low cost/yield rate when compared to income taxes....Isn't IHT meant to be avoided anyway so that people dispose of their assets into the economy before death? Surely the only IHT being paid is by people who fail to plan and those who die before their plans are finished. If the government were serious about raising money from dead people it wouldn't be so easy to avoid.
So you agree that IHT is avoidable.0 -
The point is that some people do indeed do just exactly that. It is possible to hide a business from HMRC. It's much harder to hide a house from HMRC.
Why do you need to hide a house to avoid paying a property tax?So you agree that IHT is avoidable.
Yes. Do you think it would be so easy to avoid if it was intended as a serious revenue raising exercise? Like a house it's quite difficult to hide a death.0 -
Because it is simple and easy to collect, .
So why do we have all the other taxes which are far from simple and very difficult to collect?This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
Why do you need to hide a house to avoid paying a property tax?....
Because otherwise the authorities will simply take possession of the house in lieu of unpaid property taxes....Yes. Do you think it would be so easy to avoid if it was intended as a serious revenue raising exercise?...
One might well be able to hypothetically dream up some measures that achieved that aim. On the other hand, there is no need to dream up any kind of such measures where a property tax is concerned..... Like a house it's quite difficult to hide a death.
It's not the body that you have to hide, it's the assets belonging to the deceased. (And actually hiding a body isn't that difficult. It's a lot easier than trying to hide a three bedroomed semi-detached for one thing. )0 -
Clifford_Pope wrote: »So why do we have all the other taxes which are far from simple and very difficult to collect?
Because we live in a democracy.0
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