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Would taxing property values be fairer than the Council Tax?
Comments
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one might suppose that the majority, including the rich, think that the poor should pay less.
Agreed. The problem is though that propery value is such a poor measure of ability to pay.
Ability to pay depends on income. Employment, dividends, businesses, and house lettings all pay an income, but owner-occupation does not. So the present system in fact singles out the single most inappropriate factor on which to base local taxation.This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
Clifford_Pope wrote: »Agreed. The problem is though that propery value is such a poor measure of ability to pay.
Ability to pay depends on income. Employment, dividends, businesses, and house lettings all pay an income, but owner-occupation does not. So the present system in fact singles out the single most inappropriate factor on which to base local taxation.
well, no, property values are a pretty good measure to pay for most circumstances
so some measure related to property is reasonable as e.g. in the present system
whether major change is a good idea is another matter0 -
well, no, property values are a pretty good measure to pay for most circumstances
Well no.
Property values depend on past income, not present.
Property values depend on regional variations, not necessarily having anything to do with the income of the houseowner.
Property values do not reflect the household income of all the inhabitants, only (dubiously) of the nominated houseowner.
Property values do not reflect the household useage of local services.
Property valuations are always out of date.This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
what is it you disapprove of in capitalism?
is it that is makes people rich and hence forced to steal, rape, murder etc.
Inequality and slavery. The constant demand to hoard acquire and hoard more resources no matter what the cost to the planet that we live on. The desire of many individuals to oppress and control others.
We don't need the majority of stuff that humanity produces, capitalism forces people to work so that they can survive, it's work for the sake of work.
All land was stolen from the earth, sure you might own some land, but who owned it before you? and who owned it before that person? and so on...keep going and sooner or later you're going to find that some psychopath stuck a crown on their head and said they had authority, had enough people stupid enough to agree with them, went out with an army, said "this bit of land is mine" and had enough people afraid or stupid enough to agree with them.0 -
Clifford_Pope wrote: »Well no.
Property values depend on past income, not present.
Property values depend on regional variations, not necessarily having anything to do with the income of the houseowner.
Property values do not reflect the household income of all the inhabitants, only (dubiously) of the nominated houseowner.
Property values do not reflect the household useage of local services.
Property valuations are always out of date.
the 1991 property value currently determines the distribution of the tax take between people of that council area.
the actual value of property is irrelevant when comparing differing part of the country: people in London don't in general pay more that people in Hull.
broadly speaking there is s relation between income and type of property
we have mechanisms like council tax benefit is cater for the cases where people are too poor to pay.
as it's a tax and has a distributive objective then one doesn't expect usage of services to have any effect.
I fully agree that the system is less than perfect but property taxes are hard to avoid and have a roll in the overall scheme of things.
If some-one proposes a better method then that's up for debate.0 -
Inequality and slavery. The constant demand to hoard acquire and hoard more resources no matter what the cost to the planet that we live on. The desire of many individuals to oppress and control others.
We don't need the majority of stuff that humanity produces, capitalism forces people to work so that they can survive, it's work for the sake of work.
All land was stolen from the earth, sure you might own some land, but who owned it before you? and who owned it before that person? and so on...keep going and sooner or later you're going to find that some psychopath stuck a crown on their head and said they had authority, had enough people stupid enough to agree with them, went out with an army, said "this bit of land is mine" and had enough people afraid or stupid enough to agree with them.
the future of the planet is certain.
in about 5,000 million years the hydrogen in the core of the sun will be exhausted (by capitalists) so it will start to burn helium.
The sun will expand and consume the earth and all the capitalists that reside there.
result.0 -
the future of the planet is certain.
in about 5,000 million years the hydrogen in the core of the sun will be exhausted (by capitalists) so it will start to burn helium.
The sun will expand and consume the earth and all the capitalists that reside there.
result.
If they don't nuke each other first0 -
If they don't nuke each other first
That seems a lot less likely these days, now that the Russians and the Chinese have decided to embrace capitalism.
P.S. Curious use of the word 'they'. It's as if the author regards themselves as somehow separate from the human race. It would be more natural to write, if we don't nuke each other first.0 -
That seems a lot less likely these days, now that the Russians and the Chinese have decided to embrace capitalism.
P.S. Curious use of the word 'they'. It's as if the author regards themselves as somehow separate from the human race. It would be more natural to write, if we don't nuke each other first.
Because it's a class war
That reminds me, I forgot your previous post...Otherwise known as, tax.
"From each according to his ability" means that each person just does what they can. It doesn't mean that money/resources will be stolen from everyone at the point of a gun, that's what tax is.
The key part is:
"To each according to his need"
Need, not "want".0 -
This happens in France. A poor country area will suddenly be discovered by foreigners and suddenly all these little old ladies get taxed out of the family home.
Why tax property at all? We don't tax the capital value of shares or bonds. I'd rather see incomes taxed. Wealth should only be taxed at death.
The council doesn't have to come round and take your Vodafone shares' bins out or roll a new tarmac surface over your bonds. There has to be some way of charging people for local services, a property tax seems a reasonable proxy in a society which seems to generally accept that "the rich" should pay more. People didn't seem to like each individual being individually charged for some reason...
But... we already have a property tax based on value. As PN says, it could just do with a couple more bands such on top.0
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