MSE News: New Green Deal Home Improvement Fund begins today – is it worth it for you?

ducky2004

captainhindsight wrote: »

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Yes you should expect to be £200-£600 better off by going this route rather than a non GDHIF route. And you will also have a better more efficient boiler, the Gas Flue Heat Recovery does save gas and money once installed. SO even if there is no net saving you are still getting more for your money
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This is helpful and in good detail. Many thanks CaptainHingsight..
+10

Briezzee

captainhindsight wrote: »

Your best option to take advantage of the fund, is to get a quote for boiler and flue gas heat recovery and then have another GDAR done to show these recommendations.

Thanks captainhindsight. I may have now found a company to quote me on the boiler and flue (although they haven't got back to me yet) and I too am amazed how difficult it has been. I have been met with an overwhelming sense of antipathy from nearly all the companies I have spoken to. Almost all have said it is not worth their while, that the certification process is too long and involved and will cost them too much when they are getting all the business they need without it. Unfortunately I really don't have time to go down the renewables route now. I'm also surprised the GDAR only recommends what I've asked for, surely the whole point is to recommend what is best for my situation? At least that's what I thought I was paying for.

captainhindsight_2

Briezzee wrote: »

Thanks captainhindsight. I may have now found a company to quote me on the boiler and flue (although they haven't got back to me yet) and I too am amazed how difficult it has been. I have been met with an overwhelming sense of antipathy from nearly all the companies I have spoken to. Almost all have said it is not worth their while, that the certification process is too long and involved and will cost them too much when they are getting all the business they need without it. Unfortunately I really don't have time to go down the renewables route now. I'm also surprised the GDAR only recommends what I've asked for, surely the whole point is to recommend what is best for my situation? At least that's what I thought I was paying for.

Yes it is expensive, but I would wonder whether I would want a company that is blind to the opportunities of schemes like this and of the benefits to there customers (and them) to do any work on my house.

The assessor should have gone through all the available recommendations with you and then selected the ones you were interested in. If they didnt do this maybe you should raise an issue with the assessor company or the certification scheme.

Snakey

Thanks for the advice! I've now found out that the outside walls that I didn't want to insulate actually have cavity wall insulation (and therefore aren't solid!), leaving only the walls that back on to the lift shaft and the communal staircase, which are solid. So I will be doing them all. Hmm, actually, I've been told it's not worth doing the one in the bathroom because I'm getting that tiled (and there would literally be nowhere to put the door if I lost 6-10cm of space along that wall). Could I ask him to recommend in his report that I only get three of the four relevant walls done, I wonder?

I don't get the £500 new-owner enhancement or the £100 assessor fee back unless I get two items from the main twelve? So if I do solid walls, I just get the money for the solid walls and nothing else?

Can you explain a bit more about how I can/can't get money back for the windows? It's an ex-council flat, and the window replacement is "major works" which are currently being tendered for. I will have to pay a share (which will be about £20k by the sounds of it). This won't be a payment to the contractor that carries out the work, it will be a payment to the management company who in turn pay the contractor for the entire project (my flat is one of 5-600). Does that make a difference? Which one of them has to be Green Deal registered?

It seems I would need to apply for the voucher within six months of the work finishing, but before the GDR is two years old (so my total maximum timeframe is 2.5 years - is that right?). This could be tricky when the timing of the works is entirely outside my control and because it's such a big project it could easily slip by several months.

Clearly I have to pay for these stupid overpriced windows whether I like it or not, and so if I could get any money back at all that would be a bonus. But if I might be able to qualify I'd hate to miss out just because I had been too eager and got the report too soon or missed out some other technical requirement in the small print.

It sounds like I have to get the two-from-twelve works done within six months of one another (it's all one application and if you ain't got two then you don't qualify) is that right? So if the windows are guesstimated to be done in 2016, I need to wait until 2016 to get the second thing done as well?

But the solid wall cashback is not dependent on the above, and I can go ahead with that just as soon as I've got the GDR?

But I ought to wait to get the GDR in order to be sure that I won't run out of time if the windows timetable slips. So perhaps I shouldn't do it yet.

But if I wait, then (as well as having to spend a winter without proper insulation) it might end up being more than twelve months since I bought the flat and so I'll lose out on the £500.

Argh! Too many variables for my little brain. If you can spare the time to advise me a bit more, that would be so good.

captainhindsight_2

Snakey wrote: »

Thanks for the advice! I've now found out that the outside walls that I didn't want to insulate actually have cavity wall insulation (and therefore aren't solid!), leaving only the walls that back on to the lift shaft and the communal staircase, which are solid. So I will be doing them all. Hmm, actually, I've been told it's not worth doing the one in the bathroom because I'm getting that tiled (and there would literally be nowhere to put the door if I lost 6-10cm of space along that wall). Could I ask him to recommend in his report that I only get three of the four relevant walls done, I wonder?

The report should only show recommendations for insulation on external walls and not internal walls.


I don't get the £500 new-owner enhancement or the £100 assessor fee back unless I get two items from the main twelve? So if I do solid walls, I just get the money for the solid walls and nothing else?

You get £500 if you bought your home in the last 12 months, and you get £100 back for you assessment. SO if you apply for solid walls and fit solid walls if it is recommended on the report you will get upto £600 + £500 +£100

Can you explain a bit more about how I can/can't get money back for the windows? It's an ex-council flat, and the window replacement is "major works" which are currently being tendered for. I will have to pay a share (which will be about £20k by the sounds of it). This won't be a payment to the contractor that carries out the work, it will be a payment to the management company who in turn pay the contractor for the entire project (my flat is one of 5-600). Does that make a difference? Which one of them has to be Green Deal registered?

It seems I would need to apply for the voucher within six months of the work finishing, but before the GDR is two years old (so my total maximum timeframe is 2.5 years - is that right?). This could be tricky when the timing of the works is entirely outside my control and because it's such a big project it could easily slip by several months.

You would need to have you GDAR and choose a Green Deal Installer who you want to do the work. Then apply for the voucher BEFORE the work begins. Then on completion of the voucher the installer signs the document and then gives you a claim of conformity certificate which you send off with you voucher, invoice and any other proof. A good option for you would be to get everyone in your building to get a GDAR and get a voucher that way everyone could get £1000 cashback (as long as each of them can install 2 of the 12 measures)

Clearly I have to pay for these stupid overpriced windows whether I like it or not, and so if I could get any money back at all that would be a bonus. But if I might be able to qualify I'd hate to miss out just because I had been too eager and got the report too soon or missed out some other technical requirement in the small print.

It sounds like I have to get the two-from-twelve works done within six months of one another (it's all one application and if you ain't got two then you don't qualify) is that right? So if the windows are guesstimated to be done in 2016, I need to wait until 2016 to get the second thing done as well?

yes the two measures need to be on one voucher, there is only £120M for this, that probably wont last until December so if you want to take advantage of this scheme you need to move fast

But the solid wall cashback is not dependent on the above, and I can go ahead with that just as soon as I've got the GDR?

But I ought to wait to get the GDR in order to be sure that I won't run out of time if the windows timetable slips. So perhaps I shouldn't do it yet.

But if I wait, then (as well as having to spend a winter without proper insulation) it might end up being more than twelve months since I bought the flat and so I'll lose out on the £500.

Argh! Too many variables for my little brain. If you can spare the time to advise me a bit more, that would be so good.

I think you are over thinking it all, if you look at your EPC for your home and list the measures that are recommended on that then i can give you better advice.

Snakey

The EPC is dated 2010, and suggests cavity wall insulation, condensing boiler, and double glazing. There already is cavity wall insulation and I've no idea what a condensing boiler is but the one I've got seems fine (it gives me super-hot water anyway) and is not on my To Do list.

Double glazing is out of my hands. It sounds like I just have to hope that it happens to qualify.

Firstly, I don't get to choose the supplier. This is a council block on an estate full of blocks and the whole estate is being done in one big contract which is out to tender as we speak and presumably the contractor will be selected by some tedious box-ticking process. Perhaps they've thought ahead and will ask for the contractor to be Green Deal certified. Who knows.

Secondly, I won't be able to get 71 x 8 (or whatever the exact number is) other flats - in most of which the occupiers aren't paying for the works personally as they are council or private tenants - to sign up for anything even if I had the energy to knock on that many doors.

Thirdly, my invoice will not be issued by the installer, but by the management company who contracted them, and I doubt the contractor will consider they have a duty to issue me with any sort of certificate.

My only hope for this is that the people operating this scheme are reasonable people with the authority to be flexible, because it doesn't sound as if I will be able to tick all the boxes even though what I'm doing is squarely within the purpose of the scheme and so morally speaking I feel like they should gimme the cash! But you suggest the money will have run out long before this ever happens anyway. So I suppose it doesn't matter.

The stuff I'm saying about the need to insulate the walls that back on to the lift shaft and staircase comes from a letter sent by the Envirnomental Health Officer to the previous owner where they recommended that this be done. Presumably I can get someone with a Green Deal hat on to agree with him - the EPC guy probably didn't even think about it. The staircase is an outside one - obviously where it goes up the block it's inside the block, but it opens directly to the outside (no doors) on every floor. The same applies to the lift. Does it not count as an external wall then, do you think? The problem is that the walls are really, really cold and they get bad condensation and mould on the inside as a result (hence the involvement of the EHO, back when the property was tenanted) as well as making the flat cold.

The unarguably external walls i.e. the front and back of the flat with the big wide world right outside, are cavity and already insulated. My only solid walls, other than the ones separating me from my neighbours, are these ones that back on to the lift/stairs. If they don't qualify because they're not external enough then I suppose I have to just pay for it all myself.

If I really can't get any of this then I am going to come away with a really negative opinion of this scheme. On the surface it looks as if it is trying to encourage people, particularly new homeowners, to invest in making their homes more energy-efficient. And this is exactly what I am doing, I just moved in here and I am working my way through the previous recommendations of the EHO (I've already replaced the microbore pipes and upgraded the radiators). There's nothing dodgy or slippery about anything I'm proposing. It's not like I'm saying "my daughter has princess wallpaper in her bedroom which is a bit like having insulation so I demand £1,000!" or something. And yet it's starting to sound like I won't get a penny.

Your time on helping me out is really appreciated, nonetheless.

captainhindsight_2

Snakey wrote: »

The EPC is dated 2010, and suggests cavity wall insulation, condensing boiler, and double glazing. There already is cavity wall insulation and I've no idea what a condensing boiler is but the one I've got seems fine (it gives me super-hot water anyway) and is not on my To Do list.

Double glazing is out of my hands. It sounds like I just have to hope that it happens to qualify.

Firstly, I don't get to choose the supplier. This is a council block on an estate full of blocks and the whole estate is being done in one big contract which is out to tender as we speak and presumably the contractor will be selected by some tedious box-ticking process. Perhaps they've thought ahead and will ask for the contractor to be Green Deal certified. Who knows.

Secondly, I won't be able to get 71 x 8 (or whatever the exact number is) other flats - in most of which the occupiers aren't paying for the works personally as they are council or private tenants - to sign up for anything even if I had the energy to knock on that many doors.

Thirdly, my invoice will not be issued by the installer, but by the management company who contracted them, and I doubt the contractor will consider they have a duty to issue me with any sort of certificate.

My only hope for this is that the people operating this scheme are reasonable people with the authority to be flexible, because it doesn't sound as if I will be able to tick all the boxes even though what I'm doing is squarely within the purpose of the scheme and so morally speaking I feel like they should gimme the cash! But you suggest the money will have run out long before this ever happens anyway. So I suppose it doesn't matter.

The stuff I'm saying about the need to insulate the walls that back on to the lift shaft and staircase comes from a letter sent by the Envirnomental Health Officer to the previous owner where they recommended that this be done. Presumably I can get someone with a Green Deal hat on to agree with him - the EPC guy probably didn't even think about it. The staircase is an outside one - obviously where it goes up the block it's inside the block, but it opens directly to the outside (no doors) on every floor. The same applies to the lift. Does it not count as an external wall then, do you think? The problem is that the walls are really, really cold and they get bad condensation and mould on the inside as a result (hence the involvement of the EHO, back when the property was tenanted) as well as making the flat cold.

The unarguably external walls i.e. the front and back of the flat with the big wide world right outside, are cavity and already insulated. My only solid walls, other than the ones separating me from my neighbours, are these ones that back on to the lift/stairs. If they don't qualify because they're not external enough then I suppose I have to just pay for it all myself.

If I really can't get any of this then I am going to come away with a really negative opinion of this scheme. On the surface it looks as if it is trying to encourage people, particularly new homeowners, to invest in making their homes more energy-efficient. And this is exactly what I am doing, I just moved in here and I am working my way through the previous recommendations of the EHO (I've already replaced the microbore pipes and upgraded the radiators). There's nothing dodgy or slippery about anything I'm proposing. It's not like I'm saying "my daughter has princess wallpaper in her bedroom which is a bit like having insulation so I demand £1,000!" or something. And yet it's starting to sound like I won't get a penny.

Your time on helping me out is really appreciated, nonetheless.

I think the insulation issue and whether it is an external wall or not would be up to the individuals interpretation of the property, but I don't think you are going to have much luck with that tbh.

I think the issues you are having are with you being in an apartment building, and not with the scheme. If it was a free hold house, it would be more straightforward, like any scheme it cannot offer everything to everyone.

You could get a new boiler, something like this or this would get you the £1500 cashback.

Snakey

I see that as an issue with the scheme, if people who live in flats are going to have trouble qualifying e.g. I see from one of those links that you need two external doors - not sure where I would put the second one! I assume it's to stop people who have two doors from only replacing one, but it doesn't seem very fair on people who only have one door and you do have to wonder whether flats are intentionally being excluded by conditions like this or whether they just put zero thought into the drafting.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board!

(I could do the boiler, if it could use the existing vent hole as I am not allowed to knock a new hole in the wall. )

ducky2004

Over 10 days since I contacted local GreenDeal provider - no call back.

So look for boiler quotes with local engineers - most are pretty busy and have scheduled filled for weeks ahead (and holidays).

So perhaps the local (South East) gasman really doesn't have to be bothered with the PAS2030.... they are sufficiently busy as it is..

captainhindsight_2

ducky2004 wrote: »

Over 10 days since I contacted local GreenDeal provider - no call back.

So look for boiler quotes with local engineers - most are pretty busy and have scheduled filled for weeks ahead (and holidays).

So perhaps the local (South East) gasman really doesn't have to be bothered with the PAS2030.... they are sufficiently busy as it is..

You should go to a green deal installer not a provider.

Any gas engineer not offering this will be loosing out on a lot of work when people catch one to how good this incentive is. And the guys you called might be sub contracting for a green deal installer hense why they are so busy.