MSE News: New Green Deal Home Improvement Fund begins today – is it worth it for you?

ado

The new and improved Green Deal seems good value for someone in my position with an old and relatively cold/expensive to heat Victorian house which would benefit from external SWI. The only problem I am having is finding someone who uses insulated render/plaster such as this http://www.chroda-eco.co.uk/method-statement.htmlrather than this http://www.titaninsulation.co.uk/images/solidwallpic.jpg I want a thinner layer of protection because of space constraints on a shared covered alley between houses and onto my neighbours land on the other side of the house. Render appears to be thinner than the solid pieces of insulation for the same efficiency.

captainhindsight_2

ado wrote: »

The new and improved Green Deal seems good value for someone in my position with an old and relatively cold/expensive to heat Victorian house which would benefit from external SWI. The only problem I am having is finding someone who uses insulated render/plaster such as this http://www.chroda-eco.co.uk/method-statement.htmlrather than this http://www.titaninsulation.co.uk/images/solidwallpic.jpg I want a thinner layer of protection because of space constraints on a shared covered alley between houses and onto my neighbours land on the other side of the house. Render appears to be thinner than the solid pieces of insulation for the same efficiency.

The problem is to be able to install a product and to be able to offer the warranty (a mandatory requirement of this scheme) that comes with it, the individual labours on site all have to have manufactures training at min £250 pp which is obviously expensive.

So the best thing would be to speak to the manufacture and ask for a list of approved companies that can fit this product then cross reference this with green deal installers and hopefully you will get a match.

InhaleMood

Captain Hindsight - I believe you are the man to ask about the Green Deal.

I have had the assessment done primarily to get a new boiler.

The assessor said I may be able to get the gas flue recovery unit as well in order to get the £1000 cashback, however, it now seems that I can't.

His explanation is that it isn't a recommendation with my current boiler, even though this is being changed.

Is that right?! Anything I can do about it as it doesn't seem to make sense!

captainhindsight_2

tanyasharma wrote: »

Captain Hindsight - I believe you are the man to ask about the Green Deal.

I have had the assessment done primarily to get a new boiler.

The assessor said I may be able to get the gas flue recovery unit as well in order to get the £1000 cashback, however, it now seems that I can't.

His explanation is that it isn't a recommendation with my current boiler, even though this is being changed.

Is that right?! Anything I can do about it as it doesn't seem to make sense!

What boiler do you have and have you had an EPC or a GDAR?

Briezzee

Apologies as this isn't all about the GDHIF, but I'd like to share my Here is my experience of the Green Deal so far:
I've just moved into a home that needs some serious updating - the boiler is 38 years old - and fuel bills are currently three times more than I would normally spend, even with cavity walls filled and a loft you can barely get into for all the insulation. It does have double glazing, but this is almost as old as the bungalow and the gap is tiny. I suspect that I shall lose a lot of heat through these come the winter if I haven't managed to replace them by then, or I could just keep the curtains drawn 24 hours a day.

I've spent some time researching my best options and decided I would like to go down the renewable energies route which might cost me more on the initial outlay, but would seriously reduce my carbon footprint and comes with RHI payments to help offset the cost, which is the only way I could afford it. After many weeks of research I settled on an air source heat pump and underfloor heating and accepted a quote from a reputable Green Deal installer. A week later they still hadn't come back to me with a start date and then admitted they had made a mistake on the quote and would send me out the new calculation - which is now £2,500 more and completely rules it out as an option. Never mind that I have had the flooring ripped up, the kitchen ripped out and the old radiators removed in preparation for the underfloor heating, I'll go down the GDHIF route instead and have a new boiler and energy efficient doors.

Prior to this I paid for my EPC and GDAR. The boiler isn't on my GDAR - instead they advised an air source heat pump and radiators, which would cost me more to run than the old boiler does as their 'software doesn't have an underfloor heating option' - but it is on my EPC so I should still be able to install it as one of the two recommendations. That is if I can actually find an installer for that and the only other viable option - the energy efficient doors. So far I've trawled through all 300 odd installers on the GDHIF orb as a local search lists installers in Scotland (I'm in Leicestershire) and although I have found a couple of nearby firms one has yet to return my calls. The other sent out an 'assessor' who by his own admission had no knowledge of either boilers or replacement doors and windows and whose survey consisted of taking some photos of my doors, windows and gas meter on his phone and then borrowing a tape measure to measure up my windows as he didn't have one of his own! He left with a promise that his boss would call the next day. He hasn't and there is absolutely no way I will be trusting them with my cash even if they do.

Still the windows and doors can wait for a bit so I thought I would go ahead with the claiming my voucher and get the boiler installation and underfloor heating done in the hope that more glazing installers would join the scheme within the next six months. If only I could find a Green Deal installer for the boiler! There is one in the next village, but he's too busy to return my calls, I've also tried to get an installer through Valiant, who have yet to pass on my name to one of their Green Deal approved installers and I'm beginning to think my only option will be to use British Gas and Anglian Windows which will more than likely wipe out any possible savings from the GDHIF and cost me far more.

There was one other recommendation I can install - floor insulation. This will involve digging up my concrete floors to lay the 100mm of insulation required and, as suggested by the one Green Deal company I've come into contact with that appears to know what they are talking about would be a complete waste of my money. He said he wouldn't do it as it would never return the cost in the energy savings, even if I went for high efficiency overlaid insulation. It's a shame that company only does insulation as it's the first one I think I could actually trust and if anyone is looking for external wall insulation I'd be happy to pass on their name as my initial contact was very positive.

So if you haven't already guessed I'm completely disillusioned with the Green Deal scheme. I really thought it would help to bring my leaky old energy hungry bungalow up to a more environmentally friendly spec, but it seems it will not work for me. I'm funding the upgrades by extending my mortgage (which will be far cheaper than using Green Deal finance) so don't have unlimited funds to put in all the energy saving measures I would like, but was at least hoping to get up to a C or even B from its current poor E rating and the £1500 I should be eligible for would have been a major help. If anyone has a name of a reputable installer for either a boiler or glazing it would be most welcome...

Snakey

I'm in the very early stages of looking at this so my questions may be stupid ones that I could find out for myself given enough time to research properly.

I've recently moved into a flat (two months ago) and it needs a lot of work doing to it, for which I have a priority list due to cash flow. If I can get cash back for things that I would be doing eventually anyway, then I might move them up the list so that they can be done within the time limits.

Some questions, if you happen to know, it would save me running around trying to find out:

1. Currently single glazed windows, due to be replaced but this is not my responsibility - it's arranged at estate level and I pay for it as a capital contribution type thing. Massive delays mean that although they're making promises about the Autumn it could in reality be a couple of years before it's done. And I won't have any say in who does it, or when, nor will I have a contract directly with them. All I can say for sure is that it will definitely be double-glazed.

a) Do I stand any chance of getting some money back on this?

b) If I can't get money back, can I nonetheless count this as one of the two things that I need to install to qualify for cashback (so I could get £1,000 cashback on the second thing, if it cost £1,000)?

2. I wonder what "energy-saving doors" is all about. I'd like to replace my internal doors, but I'm not sure whether I am permitted to replace my front door. How can I find out more about this?

3. One of my rooms would benefit from floor insulation, but it cannot be installed outside the flat (below the concrete floor) because the building is listed. That's the sum total of my knowledge about floor insulation. Is it possible to insulate above the floor i.e. within my flat? If it is, would that qualify?

4. I have some solid walls that would benefit from being insulated, do I have to get the whole lot done or can I just do some? The only insulation that people have suggested is dry-lining on the inside (cannot do anything that changes the appearance of the building from the outside as it is listed), does this count?

5. For the £500 and £100 cashbacks, the work I do has to have been recommended by the assessor but it doesn't have to be one of the big-ticket items in the main cashback list, is that correct? So if he says "draughtproofing" plus six things that I'm not interested in doing, I can get the draughtproofing and this will qualify me for the £500 plus the £100 to pay for his visit?

6. Can I only get cashback for the big-ticket items if they have been recommended by the assessor? So, if he doesn't say I need energy saving doors then I can't just install one in order to tick the box that says "you must install two things on this list"?

Thanks for reading!

ducky2004

captainhindsight wrote: »

If you are interested in just one of the measures above, talk to an installer who can offer the one thing you want and they should be able to get another measure to fit. This will mean your buying something you don't want as well as the one thing you do want, but it means you get the £1600 cashback so the one thing you do want has cost you less than it would have if you didnt buy the thing your didnt want.

Example is: Steve wants a boiler, he gets a quote for £1500 for a normal condensing boiler then he another quote for a condensing boiler and a gas flue heat recovery this is £2350 then £150 for a GDAR totaling £2500.

So hes better off paying the £2500, as he'll get £1600 cashback so its only cost him £900. Even if he just gets the £1100 cashback hes still better off as hes only spent £1400, a £100 less and hes got a more expensive/better/more efficient boiler fitted.

Thank you CaptainHindsight - you post answers several of my questions regarding the GDHIF.

However, I thought only measures recommended in EPC/GDAR can be installed? I have not seen a gas flue mentioned (I have check out several EPC) although boiler upgrades are often listed. Can the Green Deal Provider / Installer amend the list? A quick look at the GDIP seems to suggest that measures listed in the front page of the GDAR can be removed, but NOT added ?

At this stage, if the GDProvider/Installer 'found' another measure to do to meet the 2 measures rule, would a new GDAR need to be purchased?

The other doubt I have is that woundn't green deal providers bump up the price a little given the subsidies (and to a certain extend the extra paper works, softwares, accreditation, training and GreenDealProvider's margin/overhead) ?

Of course, I still expect savings over local non green deal quotes but not to the extend of the full £1k on 2 measures, but more like <£500 ?

Thank you.

captainhindsight_2

Briezzee wrote: »

Apologies as this isn't all about the GDHIF, but I'd like to share my Here is my experience of the Green Deal so far:
I've just moved into a home that needs some serious updating - the boiler is 38 years old - and fuel bills are currently three times more than I would normally spend, even with cavity walls filled and a loft you can barely get into for all the insulation. It does have double glazing, but this is almost as old as the bungalow and the gap is tiny. I suspect that I shall lose a lot of heat through these come the winter if I haven't managed to replace them by then, or I could just keep the curtains drawn 24 hours a day.

I've spent some time researching my best options and decided I would like to go down the renewable energies route which might cost me more on the initial outlay, but would seriously reduce my carbon footprint and comes with RHI payments to help offset the cost, which is the only way I could afford it. After many weeks of research I settled on an air source heat pump and underfloor heating and accepted a quote from a reputable Green Deal installer. A week later they still hadn't come back to me with a start date and then admitted they had made a mistake on the quote and would send me out the new calculation - which is now £2,500 more and completely rules it out as an option. Never mind that I have had the flooring ripped up, the kitchen ripped out and the old radiators removed in preparation for the underfloor heating, I'll go down the GDHIF route instead and have a new boiler and energy efficient doors.

You dont need a green deal installer for RHI, you need a MCS installer you can always get some other quotes for renewables from different installers.

Prior to this I paid for my EPC and GDAR. The boiler isn't on my GDAR - instead they advised an air source heat pump and radiators, which would cost me more to run than the old boiler does as their 'software doesn't have an underfloor heating option' - but it is on my EPC so I should still be able to install it as one of the two recommendations. That is if I can actually find an installer for that and the only other viable option - the energy efficient doors. So far I've trawled through all 300 odd installers on the GDHIF orb as a local search lists installers in Scotland (I'm in Leicestershire) and although I have found a couple of nearby firms one has yet to return my calls. The other sent out an 'assessor' who by his own admission had no knowledge of either boilers or replacement doors and windows and whose survey consisted of taking some photos of my doors, windows and gas meter on his phone and then borrowing a tape measure to measure up my windows as he didn't have one of his own! He left with a promise that his boss would call the next day. He hasn't and there is absolutely no way I will be trusting them with my cash even if they do.

The GDAR, will show recommendations you have said to the assessor you wanted. So at the time of the assessment, you wanted a heat pump so they would have removed the recommendations for a boiler and flue gas heat recovery and then suggest a heat pump, per your instructions. .

Still the windows and doors can wait for a bit so I thought I would go ahead with the claiming my voucher and get the boiler installation and underfloor heating done in the hope that more glazing installers would join the scheme within the next six months. If only I could find a Green Deal installer for the boiler! There is one in the next village, but he's too busy to return my calls, I've also tried to get an installer through Valiant, who have yet to pass on my name to one of their Green Deal approved installers and I'm beginning to think my only option will be to use British Gas and Anglian Windows which will more than likely wipe out any possible savings from the GDHIF and cost me far more.

I am very surprised you cant find a GD boiler installer Leicestershire there is a lot of competition of companies that operate in that area and taking on new jobs.

There was one other recommendation I can install - floor insulation. This will involve digging up my concrete floors to lay the 100mm of insulation required and, as suggested by the one Green Deal company I've come into contact with that appears to know what they are talking about would be a complete waste of my money. He said he wouldn't do it as it would never return the cost in the energy savings, even if I went for high efficiency overlaid insulation. It's a shame that company only does insulation as it's the first one I think I could actually trust and if anyone is looking for external wall insulation I'd be happy to pass on their name as my initial contact was very positive.

So if you haven't already guessed I'm completely disillusioned with the Green Deal scheme. I really thought it would help to bring my leaky old energy hungry bungalow up to a more environmentally friendly spec, but it seems it will not work for me. I'm funding the upgrades by extending my mortgage (which will be far cheaper than using Green Deal finance) so don't have unlimited funds to put in all the energy saving measures I would like, but was at least hoping to get up to a C or even B from its current poor E rating and the £1500 I should be eligible for would have been a major help. If anyone has a name of a reputable installer for either a boiler or glazing it would be most welcome...

Your best option to take advantage of the fund, is to get a quote for boiler and flue gas heat recovery and then have another GDAR done to show these recommendations.

captainhindsight_2

Snakey wrote: »

I'm in the very early stages of looking at this so my questions may be stupid ones that I could find out for myself given enough time to research properly.

I've recently moved into a flat (two months ago) and it needs a lot of work doing to it, for which I have a priority list due to cash flow. If I can get cash back for things that I would be doing eventually anyway, then I might move them up the list so that they can be done within the time limits.

Some questions, if you happen to know, it would save me running around trying to find out:

1. Currently single glazed windows, due to be replaced but this is not my responsibility - it's arranged at estate level and I pay for it as a capital contribution type thing. Massive delays mean that although they're making promises about the Autumn it could in reality be a couple of years before it's done. And I won't have any say in who does it, or when, nor will I have a contract directly with them. All I can say for sure is that it will definitely be double-glazed.

a) Do I stand any chance of getting some money back on this?

If you pay for it yes

b) If I can't get money back, can I nonetheless count this as one of the two things that I need to install to qualify for cashback (so I could get £1,000 cashback on the second thing, if it cost £1,000)?

Not if you dont pay for it and claim for it through the scheme

2. I wonder what "energy-saving doors" is all about. I'd like to replace my internal doors, but I'm not sure whether I am permitted to replace my front door. How can I find out more about this?

this has to be external doors

3. One of my rooms would benefit from floor insulation, but it cannot be installed outside the flat (below the concrete floor) because the building is listed. That's the sum total of my knowledge about floor insulation. Is it possible to insulate above the floor i.e. within my flat? If it is, would that qualify?

Yes it is possible and would qualify.

4. I have some solid walls that would benefit from being insulated, do I have to get the whole lot done or can I just do some? The only insulation that people have suggested is dry-lining on the inside (cannot do anything that changes the appearance of the building from the outside as it is listed), does this count?

Yes, you would have to insulateall external walls insulated internally


5. For the £500 and £100 cashbacks, the work I do has to have been recommended by the assessor but it doesn't have to be one of the big-ticket items in the main cashback list, is that correct? So if he says "draughtproofing" plus six things that I'm not interested in doing, I can get the draughtproofing and this will qualify me for the £500 plus the £100 to pay for his visit?

No it must be two of the 12 items mentioned on the list which are also recommended in an assessment


6. Can I only get cashback for the big-ticket items if they have been recommended by the assessor? So, if he doesn't say I need energy saving doors then I can't just install one in order to tick the box that says "you must install two things on this list"?

You can only get cashback for what is mentioned on the list and recommended by the report.

Thanks for reading!

See above, also read this for more information about the scheme

captainhindsight_2

ducky2004 wrote: »

Thank you CaptainHindsight - you post answers several of my questions regarding the GDHIF.

However, I thought only measures recommended in EPC/GDAR can be installed? I have not seen a gas flue mentioned (I have check out several EPC) although boiler upgrades are often listed. Can the Green Deal Provider / Installer amend the list? A quick look at the GDIP seems to suggest that measures listed in the front page of the GDAR can be removed, but NOT added ?

a energy assessor, can add and remove recommendations on a GDAR but not an EPC. You can get a recommendation for the flue gas heat recovery on an EPC but its rare, however you can get one on every GDAR providing there is not one there all ready.

At this stage, if the GDProvider/Installer 'found' another measure to do to meet the 2 measures rule, would a new GDAR need to be purchased?

Yes, it is best to go with an assessor the installer recommends that way it ensures the recommendations you want are showing providing its possible.


The other doubt I have is that woundn't green deal providers bump up the price a little given the subsidies (and to a certain extend the extra paper works, softwares, accreditation, training and GreenDealProvider's margin/overhead) ?

Yes maybe, but not as much as the cashback available as this would remove the whole point of using them.


Of course, I still expect savings over local non green deal quotes but not to the extend of the full £1k on 2 measures, but more like <£500 ?

Yes you should expect to be £200-£600 better off by going this route rather than a non GDHIF route. And you will also have a better more efficient boiler, the Gas Flue Heat Recovery does save gas and money once installed. SO even if there is no net saving you are still getting more for your money


Thank you.

Hi see answers above