What to put in contract - self employed tiler/bathroom/kitchen fitter

TomsMom

My son is in dispute at the moment with someone who doesn't want to pay for the work done - the customer is happy enough with the work but because he had some work done prior to this extra job he says he paid enough on the first job despite agreeing the price for the second job.

I thought my son had a contract he used but after speaking to him today he apparently doesn't, plus everything about the disputed job was verbal.

I've pointed out the error of his ways and he now sees the sense of getting a contract sorted and using it for every job. He is a ceramic tiler and also fits bathrooms and kitchen, plus he does other bits and pieces as necessary such as plastering, making good, etc.

Can anyone point me in the right direction of where to find a sample contract? If necessary he'd be happy to have a solicitor look over it.

andyhop

Most folk getting in someone for small jobs will not want to sign contracts, we do kitchens,bathrooms, wetrooms and I know If I put a contract infront of some of our customers they would walk away

Trust works both ways and yes I have been done over for around 7k. I removed the lot and got charged with theft!!

Always put quotes in writing, email over so its in black and white. You would be better with a decent set of t&cs and having both parties sign before any work commences

TomsMom

andyhop wrote: »

Most folk getting in someone for small jobs will not want to sign contracts, we do kitchens,bathrooms, wetrooms and I know If I put a contract infront of some of our customers they would walk away

Trust works both ways and yes I have been done over for around 7k. I removed the lot and got charged with theft!!

Always put quotes in writing, email over so its in black and white. You would be better with a decent set of t&cs and having both parties sign before any work commences

Ah, OK, Ts & Cs it is , many thanks.

He's got a job coming up soon worth about £3,000 and he'd like something in place for this. Would you mind suggesting something, or is there somewhere I could look for ideas? I'm happy to help him all I can but don't really know where to start with this.

Sorry you got done over for such a large amount. I suggested to my son that he go and remove the floor tiles from the job he did but he said it wasn't legal - I thought he had a contract that didn't have a clause giving him the right to enter the property and take back the goods then today I found out he has nothing in place.

ceredigion

I`ve been following your posts with interest as a self employed tradesman. Sadly ive been had several times and to a certain extent you`ve got to grin and bare it. Its a bit like shop lifting , in as much as the thief puts up the cost of an item to the law abiding customer. What im basically saying there is , any business has to set aside a certain amount to cover bad debt and that doesn't matter if you`re turning over several million or several thousand.
Contracts are only really used with the bigger jobs and as previously said a set of terms and conditions would probably do you better. However , if a clients not going to pay their bill a set of T and G`s is hardly going to make any difference . On top of that , any thing you try and draft yourself probably wouldn't last 30 seconds in a court with a solicitor pulling it to shreds. And national law always takes priority any way , so if you were to say something like all materials belong to x y z until paid for in full and can be removed at anytime . This would not carry any weight what so ever as it would be illegal .
From a personal point of view , I don't bother with T and G`s , more relying on my judgement and if im really not happy will insist on stage payments . If the client isn't going to pay the last one always make sure ive had all my money by then. and the last one is the profit margin. Its still abit gutting but at least it would break you.

TomsMom

ceredigion wrote: »

I`ve been following your posts with interest as a self employed tradesman. Sadly ive been had several times and to a certain extent you`ve got to grin and bare it. Its a bit like shop lifting , in as much as the thief puts up the cost of an item to the law abiding customer. What im basically saying there is , any business has to set aside a certain amount to cover bad debt and that doesn't matter if you`re turning over several million or several thousand.
Contracts are only really used with the bigger jobs and as previously said a set of terms and conditions would probably do you better. However , if a clients not going to pay their bill a set of T and G`s is hardly going to make any difference . On top of that , any thing you try and draft yourself probably wouldn't last 30 seconds in a court with a solicitor pulling it to shreds. And national law always takes priority any way , so if you were to say something like all materials belong to x y z until paid for in full and can be removed at anytime . This would not carry any weight what so ever as it would be illegal .
From a personal point of view , I don't bother with T and G`s , more relying on my judgement and if im really not happy will insist on stage payments . If the client isn't going to pay the last one always make sure ive had all my money by then. and the last one is the profit margin. Its still abit gutting but at least it would break you.

Thanks for your reply. We've done a letter today to the non-paying customer, stating that as the job was done by two people rather than one then the time quoted was halved but the same amount of work was done (which of course had already been discussed with the customer), reminded him that he accepted the price when originally quoted, that the fixed price still stands and giving him 14 days to pay. We'll see what happens after that but my son is willing to go the Moneyclaim route if necessary.

It's soul destroying really. He's too nice. He works prices out on the basis of the cheapest way for the customer - what a twonk! I've told him to increase his hourly rate and decide a price for each particular job, either fixed, day rate or hourly depending on what it is and stop doing people favours over pricing. We live in a quite small community and he's built up his work by recommendation over the years. Work has slowed down lately and he needs to take what he can get and has even done some general maintenance work for his wife's boss for £7 an hour. When I told him he was stupid he said he'd rather have something coming in than nothing. I can see his point, he has 3 children, the oldest one's fiancee living with them as well who has a baby due next month.

Anyway, he's off again tomorrow (working away doing a tiling job for a member of his wife's family, hopefully being paid a decent amount which includes the cost of petrol as he's going over 100 miles away!) but when he gets back next weekend we'll perhaps discuss what can be put in Ts & Cs. It's more a precaution really as he rarely gets a problem. I'll mention that it may be worth considering asking for stage payments for the £3,000 job if he doesn't know the person.

Doozergirl

I think what is most important, TomsMom is that he produces a formal quotation which details as much as possible what he is doing for the customer and the price. We present our quotes by hand, but I also convert my word quotes to pdf format and email them to the customer along with the expected payment schedule.

The argument always seems to be about what the customer says they thought they were getting for their money. If it is put in writing before the job starts, people can't argue over it and it makes it easier for you to Money Claim as you clearly have in writing what was agreed for what price.

Doing things verbally gives the customer the impression that you are avoiding tax - they'll take advantage of that!

TomsMom

Doozergirl wrote: »

I think what is most important, TomsMom is that he produces a formal quotation which details as much as possible what he is doing for the customer and the price. We present our quotes by hand, but I also convert my word quotes to pdf format and email them to the customer along with the expected payment schedule.

The argument always seems to be about what the customer says they thought they were getting for their money. If it is put in writing before the job starts, people can't argue over it and it makes it easier for you to Money Claim as you clearly have in writing what was agreed for what price.

Doing things verbally gives the customer the impression that you are avoiding tax - they'll take advantage of that!

I hear what you're saying DG and appreciate your reply. Normally he does do formal quotes, I've done all the templates for him on his computer and he fills in the details each time.

We went through his diary for this job yesterday, I was making notes in readiness for doing Moneyclaim if that's needed and I got the full story for this job. The people concerned are the in-laws of someone he knows quite well, he went along to quote for the floor tiling job, drew a rough plan, worked out the cost (labour only), told them how many tiles to purchase and gave them a date he could start. Everything was verbally agreed and he accepted that because of the "connection".

He went along on the start date to be told the kitchen he was to tile wasn't ready for him to do the job (needed clearing of stuff stored and a bit of making good by the customer), so they said they wanted the upstairs bathroom and en suite tiling as well. He gave them a price for that, all agreed, job started, done to satisfaction, invoice given to customer and a cheque handed over with no problem. He went back after the weekend to do the original job agreed and when he finished he handed over the invoice. Customer said he would send cheque. When it didn't arrive my son rang and reminded him payment was due, customer said "OK I'll get the cheque off to you". Again it didn't arrive. Son phoned again and that's when he was told they thought they'd paid enough already and weren't going to pay any more. There was no questioning the price originally, nor when they asked him to do the extra work and he made it clear what that would cost in addition, nor when they handed over the first cheque.

I really drummed it into him yesterday about no more verbal agreements, always do written quotes whoever it is, no more working out the cheapest way of paying for the customer, no more cheapies and to get himself a proper business head! Hopefully it's sunk in now and he wont be in this position again.

Doozergirl

I hear you! Sometimes men can be like children. They don't listen and have to learn by their own mistakes