Civil Enforcement Ltd - Private Charge Notice

villa852010

Hi

I require some advice, i recently received a PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) for staying at a car park for 1hr 13minutes, which according to CEL should have only been one hour. The reason i stayed at the car park was because i am a member of a gym who advertise 2 hours parking, but recently they introduced a touch screen monitor which i need to enter every time someone uses the gym.

On this particular day i may have not entered my registration hence the PCN.

I appealed to CEL stating i was a member and provided proof of membership which they refused, so i appealed to popla and they also refused. Find below what they replied with:

*********************************************

***** (Appellant)
-v-
Civil Enforcement Limited also t/as Starpark & Creative Car Park & Parksolve & Versatile Parking (Operator)

The Operator issued parking charge notice number ***** arising out of the presence at Kings Health Retail Park, Findlay Road, Birmingham, on 27 March 2014, of a vehicle with registration mark *****.

The Appellant appealed against liability for the parking charge.
The Assessor considered the evidence of both parties and determined that the appeal be refused.

The Assessor’s reasons are as set out.

In order to avoid any further action by the operator, payment of the £100 parking charge should be made within 14 days.

Details of how to pay will appear on previous correspondence from the operator.

Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination

The operator issued parking charge notice number ***** arising out of the presence at Kings Health Retail Park, Findlay Road, Birmingham, on 27 March 2014, of a vehicle with registration mark *****.

The operator recorded that the vehicle exceeded the 1 hour maximum stay.

The operator’s case is that there is clear signage displayed across the site informing motorists that the site allows a maximum stay of two hours. The operator submits that the appellant overstayed the maximum stay when not authorised to do so and breached the terms and conditions of using the site.

The appellant’s case is that they were using the gym. The appellant submits that the gym allows 2 hours free parking for all members.

The appellant has provided evidence to prove that they are a member of the gym. The appellant states that they entered their vehicle registration mark into the touch screen inside the gym to register for two hours free parking.

The operator has provided a screen shot of the touch screen which shows that the appellant’s vehicle registration mark was not entered into the database on the date of the alleged breach, therefore the appellant’s vehicle was not authorised to overstay the maximum time of 1 hour.

Considering carefully, all the evidence before me, I find that by overstaying the maximum stay of 1 hour, when not authorised to do so, the appellant breached the terms and conditions of using the site. I note the appellant’s case; however this is mitigation and does not form a valid ground to allow this appeal.

Accordingly, this appeal must be refused.

*****
Assessor
************************************************

The other issue is that CEL are sending correspondence to my sister who is the registered keeper of the vehicle but it was myself who entered the car park.

I really don't want to pay the fine and more concerned will it affect my sisters credit rating, also can i appeal POPLA decision?

Your help and advice will be much appreciated.

Regards

:beer:

da_rule

You cannot appeal a POPLA decision.

Unfortunately you have wasted your POPLA opportunity as you spoke about what actually happened on the day rather than using the tried and tested legal arguments that we use on here.

There will be no impact on any credit rating until the matter goes to court (if it ever gets that far).

You have 3 real options:
1) Pay
2) Identify yourself as the driver - this will take the pressure off of your sister, but you will not be able to appeal
3) Do nothing - the risk with this is that the arming company may take your sister to court, this isn't insurmountable as it is possible to win at court, but it will be your sister who will be the defendant, not you, and even if she does lose, her credit rating will not be affected if she pays the judgment amount within a month.

villa852010

Thank you for the prompt reply, i will try and contact CEL if they even answer the phone to change the name.

da_rule

villa852010 wrote: »

Thank you for the prompt reply, i will try and contact CEL if they even answer the phone to change the name.

Don't phone them. Your sister needs to write to them to do it. Post it and obtain free proof of postage from the Post Office.

villa852010

Oh i also forgot to mention that the decision POPLA have sent has contradicting advice, one statement stating one hour the other stating two hours?

The operator recorded that the vehicle exceeded the 1 hour maximum stay.

The operator’s case is that there is clear signage displayed across the site informing motorists that the site allows a maximum stay of two hours. The operator submits that the appellant overstayed the maximum stay when not authorised to do so and breached the terms and conditions of using the site.

da_rule

Unfortunately it's irrelevant as there is no right of appeal against POPLA. Their decision is final, but is only binding on the parking company.

villa852010

Ok thanks i will get a letter to them

Coupon-mad

NO your sister writes the letter, please don't miss this chance to do it right, don't muck this up or she could end up with a court claim now. Please research this properly - how to name the driver to reset the clock (so the keeper is then not liable and the driver can appeal if the PPC send a Notice to them) is covered in the NEWBIES thread at the top of the forum.

What a shame to read about an utterly wasted POPLA code - it was your sister's golden ticket if you did but know it. We win 100% of POPLA appeals, have done for well over a year, and it is easy if only you'd known the words to use and realised from the POPLA website that they don't consider mitigating circumstances (i.e. nothing about 'what happened'). Oh deary me, now you are playing catch up to rewind the clock so the driver can appeal.

villa852010 wrote: »

Thank you for the prompt reply, i will try and contact CEL if they even answer the phone to change the name.

It is not a matter of calling them and 'changing the name'.

No-one phones one of these firms - it would be like trying to engage with a phishing email scammer. Glad you've found this forum now though, maybe we can help you snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, so to speak. I noticed you are still calling it a 'fine' a well so you would do well to read the forum more; start with the NEWBIES thread and find ordinaryJoe's thread which has a template letter for a keeper to name the driver to discharge the keeper's liability in law.

DO NOT DELAY. DO NOT PAY THOUGH!

villa852010

Thank you Coupon-Mad

Is this the letter you a referring to?

***********************************************************
ParkingEye Ltd
Legal Department
[Insert Address]

[Insert Date]

[Insert the reference quoted on their LBCCC]

Dear Sir

Vehicle Registration Number [insert reg number]


I am the registered keeper of the above mentioned vehicle.

I am writing to acknowledge the letter before county court claim dated [insert date] and to inform you that I was not the driver of the vehicle on the date of the alleged 'parking event'. Therefore you must pursue the driver, whose details are:

[INSERT NAME]

[INSERT ADDRESS]

Please note: this discharges my obligation as Registered Keeper under PoFA 2012 and any court proceedings will be defended on that basis.

Yours faithfully

PRINT NAME
******************************************************

da_rule

Looks good. You'll probably get some bluster from them saying that the driver cannot be named this late etc, if you do just reply robustly and complain to the BPA.

Edit: Just noticed, the letter you have copied is addressed to ParkingEye, this obviously needs to be adjusted. Also, you haven't had a LBCCC yet, so insert the parking charge number instead.

Coupon-mad

Yep yep yep, signed by the registered keeper.

You could add at the bottom 'Proof of Posting of this letter has been retained'.

Which does NOT mean sending it recorded delivery or anything (you get a free cert of posting from the PO Counter and keep it).