Uni short changing students on lessons and advice?

amiehall

You haven't mentioned how your son is performing on the course? Presumably he has had coursework/exams although I appreciate he is probably still waiting on some results. If he is trying hard and not performing well (at least near the 2:1 border) then presumably the decision is simple and he should leave the course. I would be really wary of a direct transfer without some serious thought about why this subject was unsuitable and why the new one will be better. There is also the chance that he's doing well and just doesn't enjoy it or lacks confidence in his abilities. I guess that would make it more complicated.

I think your expectations in terms of advice from lecturers is unreasonable though. Thinking about my experience, I'm heavily involved in student representation in my department and, as a result, am on first name terms with all senior (and many junior) staff in the department. However, I really don't think that, even with that relationship, I can't see how they could advise me specifically on what's best for my future!! Your son's marks together with any returned coursework will guide him wrt what is expected of him academically and whether he is delivering it.

When your son has asked for feedback on the standard of his work, has he made an appointment rather than just tried to catch them at the end of a lecture? Has he sent them a copy of the work prior to the meeting so they can refresh their memory of it? Has he brought a printed copy to review together? If not, how was he expecting the lecturer to know what work was his and give specific feedback on it?

In terms of advising people for the future, I would imagine that they're very wary! Again, in my position I'm exposed to a lot of student problems. However, I would never give advice if someone was basically there saying "what should I do with my life... is this course for me" because how could I ever know? One person might just need a bit of a confidence boost "you can do it!" while the next is there studying 16 hours a day, scoring 45 and probably needs something a bit more drastic.

Your son needs to approach his personal tutor. Most universities will have one tutor assigned specifically to each student, and they probably have never taught the student in question directly. Your son will likely need the consent of this tutor to move courses, so an appointment for a chat should be made sooner rather than later. Again, the tutor won't be able to tell your son what course he would be best to study, sadly your son needs to decide this for himself.

He should also contact his students union, there is probably someone like me who could help him in being more assertive in seeking out quality feedback or provide moral support in meetings.

I'm not totally sure how I've managed to ramble for so long but in summary, your son should make a specific appointment with his personal tutor. He can try and go back to his lecturers with some of his work in hand and look for some more specific feedback on how it measures up to the standard expected (although his mark will be a guide to this...). He mainly needs to do some soul searching and think about what he wants to do in the future and how he can achieve this.

[Deleted User]

I'm contacting him with some of the points you've raised as I think there's a few things to think about.

I've not been overly specific about the details so as not to identify the uni although he is doing business studies and it is supposed to be a good uni for that. However, I've made the areas as clear as I can and some people have understood immediately probably because their experiences are more recent.

May be that is the problem and there's been a deterioration in the quality of lecturing/tutoring/teaching - I don't care what you call it. When I read Golden Shadow's comments I realised that that was exactly my son's experience. I went to university and I and he and anyone else going understands that there is a difference between uni and school and that a student has to do a considerable amount for themselves. His experience is not unique though as I've been contacted by a number of people in the same situation.

I feel there's a massive difference between my experience and his. Nor is he backward in coming forward. He's a confident lad, he's made various attempts to speak to lecturers/tutors/teachers/staff and come up against brick walls

I think the points made are very interesting so I'm asking him to read this thread and I will post again.

Thank you all very much for your comments as they've been thought provoking.

amiehall

I'm about to graduate with a maths degree in about a month (touch wood...) so my experiences are very recent.

I'm not holding my university up as the beacon of good practice, I've had some shocking lecturers. I have always had plenty of opportunities to seek help though. All my lecturers offer a weekly office hour per module and the attendance at these is shockingly poor (around 1/2 students per module per month) so people at my uni don't even take advantage of what is on offer. I'd probably be more likely to subject my friends to my idiotic questions though than my lecturer. Maybe my views are a bit warped as honestly who would seek life advice from a maths professor....

I guess I have got what I needed from the experience. Namely my degree certificate and a solid graduate job to start in September.

bewildered123

OK here's another few things that it might be helpful for your son to think about.
1) Is he actually doing badly or is it that he did better at A-levels? First year is a transition year and it is very hard to go from being the best in the class in a small 6th form group, to getting mid-range marks. Business schools also tend to have massive (and very international) cohorts that make sense of feeling a bit lost even worse. Depending on how much choice of modules there is, he may find groups are a lot smaller in the next two years and so it's easier to make connections with staff. It's not going to be like school again as others have said, but having seen the numbers on year 1 business modules where I teach, I can see it might be alienating.
2) If he really is struggling academically, there's a good chance that it's either maths or writing skills letting him down, rather than failure to master the subject material. These are problems that can be addressed. Many universities have writing centres and extra maths help available, but sometimes students are reluctant to admit they need the help. If this might be the issue, please try to persuade him to see what's on offer.
3) Has he chosen business because he's really interested or because he wanted to go to university and thought it was more vocational than his preferred subject? If so, a course transfer might be worth considering.
4) Complaining about the teaching is well worth doing, particularly if your son can offer specific problems that someone can solve e.g. lectures were cancelled, the books on the reading list aren't in the library. I suspect showing my own prejudices though that it might genuinely be hard for anyone to make introductory accounting fascinating, and if he's found first year dull, it may well get better as he specialises. If though the university management has decided to deliver teaching, like an earlier poster described at Anglia Ruskin, through poorly paid part-time staff on zero hour contracts, then voting with his feet (and telling them why) is probably the better option.

prowla

Regarding the fees, you are not just paying for the lectures/tutorials, but also for access to the University's facilities, which presumably includes a library and CBT systems. They are a lot of money, but it's not just being used to pay the lecturer stood at the front of the room.

If you go there expecting to be taught in the same way as at school, then you will be disappointed; you have to be much more of a self-starter.

When I went we did have one lecturer who used to tell us what to write down, and I always thought that that was an utter waste of his and our time; he could have done handouts and spent the lecture explaining them, instead of giving people writer's cramp!

At Uni you aren't being taught, you are put into an environment where you can learn; it's up to you what you take out of it, but for sure just relying on the lectures is only going to give you part of the picture.

[Deleted User]

He is paying to be taught properly as part of his fees and he expects to do a lot himself as you say it's not like school and that has been fully appreciated. There are a couple of other things that concern me though.

[Deleted User]

Bewildered and AmieHall, thank you, will discuss with him.

[Deleted User]

Dizzie - have pm you, thanks

prowla

Beremy wrote: »

He is paying to be taught properly as part of his fees and he expects to do a lot himself as you say it's not like school and that has been fully appreciated. There are a couple of other things that concern me though.

Sure; it's a lot of money.

I was just making the point that Uni "teaching" is different to school.

There should also be tutorials in smaller groups - does he have them?

Gloomendoom

prowla wrote: »

At Uni you aren't being taught, you are put into an environment where you can learn; it's up to you what you take out of it, but for sure just relying on the lectures is only going to give you part of the picture.

Exactly. It's the difference between a pupil and a student... or at least it used to be until it became trendy to call school pupils 'students' like they do in the US.