Planning Department Problems - HELP!

DK74

Hi all, I'm not sure if this is the right section to post in but I couldn't find one that was more relevant.

I am in the process of buying some land and I need to change the usage of it so contacted my local planning department.

To say that they have been rude and unhelpful is a complete understatement!!

After speaking to around 6 or 7 different people, I had the same amount of different answers as to what I could do and how to do it! I finally managed to speak to somebody helpful who guided me in the right direction, so I completed a 'pre application enquiry' form and was told that hey would be in touch within 4 weeks.

It will be 7 weeks tomorrow and I have still not had an answer, I called today to enquire and was told that the person dealing with it had been on holiday and she would 'get to it when she got to it'. I find this completely unacceptable, by the sounds of it, I will be lucky if I get a reply within double the time they stated. Even if they then say yes, I still have to actually apply to change the usage which I think takes around 8-10 weeks, 'this' application is just for them to say whether they 'may' say yes or not to changing the usage.

In the meantime, somebody else could buy the land that I am looking at and then I will have wasted 6 or so months and over a thousand pounds for nothing.

Is there anybody I can speak to 'above' the planning department or is there somebody who can advise on this as you are apparently 'not allowed to talk to anybody' in the planning department!!

The last thing I want to do is upset them but the way they act and speak to people is disgusting, It's almost as if they know they have this power over people and abuse it.

No wonder people struggle to start up businesses these days!

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

GeorgieBuilder

Unfortunately they have the upper hand, but knowledge is power, be patient find out as much as you can and don't lose it whatever you do.

I would suggest finding a planning specialist as if you wanted to design a house and submit the planning to the council, these people are familiar with who is who and know much more than you will about the situation and the people that work there, this can help you tremendously.

If it does all go wrong, there is always a higher authority if you really believe you are being wronged and it's a case of personalities affecting the decision, but this will be your very last resort.

Mojisola

DK74 wrote: »

I am in the process of buying some land and I need to change the usage of it so contacted my local planning department.

In the meantime, somebody else could buy the land that I am looking at and then I will have wasted 6 or so months and over a thousand pounds for nothing.

If you get permission before buying the land, won't that push up the value of the land?

DK74

Mojisola wrote: »

If you get permission before buying the land, won't that push up the value of the land?

No as it's grazing land, I just want to change the types of animals that I am allowed to keep there.

The biggest problem is that where I live, land rarely comes up for sale so time is crucial.

If I buy it and they say no then I am stuck with 5 Acres that are useless to me!

DK74

Hi all, I have an update to this thread.

I called the council the week after my first post (as advised when I had previously called them) and after week 8, the person dealing with its exact words were "I will get to it when I get to it, I have been away and have a back log of applications to look at"!
He was, yet again, extremely rude and dismissive and didn't seem bothered in the slightest that the application had already taken twice as long as it should of done.
He more than likely put my application to the bottom of the pile once he'd put the phone down!

On Wednesday it will be 12 weeks since I first applied and I am absolutely furious as I have paid for a service to be completed within 4 weeks and received nothing!
Somebody has suggested that I speak to my local Councillor/MP and make a complaint as this will go onto the councils stats and will cause them to act immediately.

My concern is that it gets the planning departments back up and they then just refuse my application but the person who has advised that I do this says that they must have a valid reason for refusing this and that It can always be appealed 'if' that does happen claiming victimisation etc...

It seems that if I do nothing, I will lose this land anyway so don't really have a great deal to lose.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated

Annie1960

Your local councillor can 'call in' planning applications, so they are decided by the elected councillors, not the people in the planning dept.

Of course, your councillor would need to agree that the change you want is a desirable one.

princeofpounds

Welcome to the planning cartel.

You are not a customer, you are a supplicant.

They are very used to being treated with kid gloves unfortunately.

Mind you, they probably do also have a backlog.

If you are well-beyond the agreed service times then it might be worth a formal complaint, but they do come with risks attached.

It sounds to me like you aren't even applying for planning permission; you're just paying for the enquiry (which people on the self-build forums often see as a waste of time as the officers tend to be utterly non-commital).

DK74

princeofpounds wrote: »

Welcome to the planning cartel.

You are not a customer, you are a supplicant.

They are very used to being treated with kid gloves unfortunately.

Mind you, they probably do also have a backlog.

If you are well-beyond the agreed service times then it might be worth a formal complaint, but they do come with risks attached.

It sounds to me like you aren't even applying for planning permission; you're just paying for the enquiry (which people on the self-build forums often see as a waste of time as the officers tend to be utterly non-commital).

I've put in a pre-application to change the use of some land, it's not even the 'actual' application, just a 'guide' as to whether they might say yes!!! They have told me that I must do this before I can actually apply for the application so there is nothing else I can do (as far as I know).

It is as of today, 3 times over the promised timescale (promised 4 weeks, currently 12)!

How long is too long to wait, I think that this is completely unacceptable and there is no excuse for it!

There are government timescales on the actual application but nothing for the pre-applications, sometimes the only way to get things done is to complain.

I was told that if my pre-app is then refused, it can be challenged if you think you have been victimised for complaining (i.e. they have granted the same thing elsewhere and turned you down etc..).

I am tempted to go in there and attempt to speak to somebody as they pretty much refuse over the phone!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

planning_officer

Sorry to hear you're being treated so badly by fellow planning professionals. I'm fairly senior in our planning dept and if my staff behaved like this, I would not be pleased.


Getting back to the thread, forget about the advice about victimisation and appealing - complete waste of your time. Submit a formal complaint through the Council's complaints procedure, or contact a Councillor and ask them to chase it up - either of those will speed your pre-app up.


Regarding the pre-app itself, what do you want to do with the land? You say you want to change the type of animals kept there and that it's presently agricultural land. Is it an equestrian use you want to do? If so, will the horses be grazing on the land or will you import feed for them (makes a difference, as you might not even need planning permission). Or is it another type of animal?

Section 336 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 defines ‘agriculture' as including:

• ‘horticulture, fruit growing, seed growing, dairy farming;
• the breeding and keeping of livestock (including any creature kept for the production of food, wool, skins or fur, or for the purpose of its use in the farming of land);
• the use of land as grazing land, meadow land, osier land, market gardens or nursery grounds; and
• the use of land for woodlands where that use is ancillary to the farming of land for other agricultural purposes.’

So, if it's presently agricultural land, you don't need planning permission to use it for any of the above agricultural uses. To keep horses (non-grazing) will require planning permission though.

princeofpounds

PS planning officer, thanks once again for the helpful post and for ignoring my ranting above... I have poltical-economic issues with the system but your posts are a real asset to the board.

planning_officer

Thanks Prince... I know the planning system isn't perfect, but we do try...!