Planning Department Problems - HELP!

G_M

A bit off-topic, but why are different councils run so differently.

Where I am, I can just go in, ask to see a planner, wait 10-15 minutes, and chat informallyabout my plans.

I tried to do this for my elderly mum, but it turns out to get even the most informal bit of advice from her council you have to make an appointment and pay £150.

OK - different councils, different budget constraints, different political ideologies etc, but... really it's the postcode lottary.

Davesnave

G_M wrote: »

A bit off-topic, but why are different councils run so differently.

Where I am, I can just go in, ask to see a planner, wait 10-15 minutes, and chat informallyabout my plans.

I tried to do this for my elderly mum, but it turns out to get even the most informal bit of advice from her council you have to make an appointment and pay £150.

OK - different councils, different budget constraints, different political ideologies etc, but... really it's the postcode lottary.

Even planning applications cost different amounts. When our architect last submitted a plan, we had a refund, because he'd based the fee on what his council charges, not ours.

Appointments, such as you describe, usually incur a fee, when they were free just a few years ago. This is likely to lead to the same problems that charging for waste disposal causes: i.e. more people doing their own thing, rather than going through the appropriate channels.

DK74

planning_officer wrote: »

Sorry to hear you're being treated so badly by fellow planning professionals. I'm fairly senior in our planning dept and if my staff behaved like this, I would not be pleased.


Getting back to the thread, forget about the advice about victimisation and appealing - complete waste of your time. Submit a formal complaint through the Council's complaints procedure, or contact a Councillor and ask them to chase it up - either of those will speed your pre-app up.


Regarding the pre-app itself, what do you want to do with the land? You say you want to change the type of animals kept there and that it's presently agricultural land. Is it an equestrian use you want to do? If so, will the horses be grazing on the land or will you import feed for them (makes a difference, as you might not even need planning permission). Or is it another type of animal?

Section 336 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 defines ‘agriculture' as including:

• ‘horticulture, fruit growing, seed growing, dairy farming;
• the breeding and keeping of livestock (including any creature kept for the production of food, wool, skins or fur, or for the purpose of its use in the farming of land);
• the use of land as grazing land, meadow land, osier land, market gardens or nursery grounds; and
• the use of land for woodlands where that use is ancillary to the farming of land for other agricultural purposes.’

So, if it's presently agricultural land, you don't need planning permission to use it for any of the above agricultural uses. To keep horses (non-grazing) will require planning permission though.

Hi planning_officer, thank you so much for your advice, I feel like I have been banging my head against a brick wall.

Sorry for the delay in responding to your post but I wanted to speak to the planning department first, I did this on Monday and the situation has gotten even worse!

It would probably be best if I explained what I want the land for and what has happened so far, so that you have a better idea of just how bad things are now.

I am a Dog Trainer/Walker and have been for 8 years now, in the last couple of years I have noticed a huge increase in people starting up this profession. The majority of them are completely unqualified and don’t stick to the laws currently set out which is giving professionals like myself a bad name and making my job increasingly more difficult when working in public spaces.

I have been considering purchasing land for quite some time now and have been trying to find out what I needed to do with regards to the planning department, the problem is that every time I have called them, I speak to a new person and get told something completely different from that of the last person.
I had spoken to around 6 different people before finally speaking to somebody who appeared to be very friendly and helpful, the others were extremely rude and condescending with one even telling me that I could not even apply for anything as I did not own the land!

I explained to the helpful person exactly what I want to do which is buy some land and use it to keep my dogs on from 0930-1500 Mon-Fri, having around 10-15 dogs maximum. Myself or my partner would be taking a small group of dogs out on local walks whilst the other stayed on the land to look after the remaining dogs so there would in actual fact only be around 10 dogs at a time there.
He told me that I needed to put in a pre-application saying exactly what I had told him and that he would try to rush it through so that the risk of somebody else buying the land in the meantime would be minimised. He also told me that the council may view this as low usage and it would help my application.

It is now just coming up for week 16 since I originally put in my application! I have made regular phone calls to the planning department and have always been polite and friendly, again, everyone I have spoken to has either been extremely unhelpful or just down right rude with the person dealing with my application saying that “I will get to it when I get to it madam” despite it already being double the promised 4 week maximum.

I left it for a while as the last thing I wanted to do was annoy them and have my application rejected due to a clash of personalities but the time went on and on and I’d still heard nothing. I called them last Monday only to be told that they had written to me in early June rejecting my application due to a lack of detail.

To say that I am furious is an understatement, I have done exactly what I was instructed to do by the planning department only to be told that I have to start the application again! I know for a fact that the person dealing with my case is lying to me as the date he stated that the letter went out to me was before my last phone call to him when he said “I will get to it when I get to it”. He then promised to send another copy out, that was a week ago today and I have still not received anything!

The land that I was looking at has now been put up for auction on 29th July so I have in effect lost it, I would love to bid for it but obviously run the risk of not getting permission from the planning department to change the use from equestrian to recreational which is what the council have told me I need permission for to use it for my dogs.

I have found one other plot of land but again, I don’t know whether the planning department would consider changing agricultural land to allow me to keep dogs there Mon-Fri.

I feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place as land in Surrey is very hard to come by and when it does come up for sale, it goes quickly and I simply don’t have a chance of getting it due to the timescales of the planning department.

I would be extremely grateful for ‘any’ help or advice that you may be able to offer.

Many thanks,

Mrs_Imp

Have you considered buying the land subject to planning permission? We did that and had a non-returnable deposit of about 200. (Unfortunately our planning department said no to our informal enquiry so we had to pull out, only for them to grant permission to a developer).
The seller will sell anyway by the sounds of it, so if you sale falls through he'll have a few extra quid in his pocket and won't lose out.

DK74

Mrs_Imp wrote: »

Have you considered buying the land subject to planning permission? We did that and had a non-returnable deposit of about 200. (Unfortunately our planning department said no to our informal enquiry so we had to pull out, only for them to grant permission to a developer).
The seller will sell anyway by the sounds of it, so if you sale falls through he'll have a few extra quid in his pocket and won't lose out.

Thank you Mrs Imp, It's certainly something to consider in the future if anything else comes up.

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

Davesnave

We could argue all day about whether dog walking is a 'profession,' but one thing I'm clear about is that any application to house 10 random dogs, however temporarily, on land bordering mine, would be strongly resisted.

While I sympathise with your bad treatment by the local planners, I think there is a world of difference between stabling horses on an area of land and keeping dogs there.

This is surely why there are constraints surrounding permissions for new commercial kennels.

Gwhiz

To be brutally honest, pre-planning applications/discussions hold absolutely no weight at all. I've seen many views change on their way through the planning process.

The owner of the land will always have wanted to maximise the sale value, hence why it's going to auction.

In some planning cases you need to take a leap of faith and secure the land before permission is granted if you want to secure the land.

I've recently built my own house and that's what I did - bought the land and then went for planning as that was happening. I was confident I would get it but it could have gone (text removed by MSE Forum Team) up!!!

Davesnave

Gwhiz wrote: »

I've recently built my own house and that's what I did - bought the land and then went for planning as that was happening. I was confident I would get it but it could have gone (text removed by MSE Forum Team) up!!!

The word they want you to use is paridae.

Gwhiz

Davesnave wrote: »

The word they want you to use is paridae.

Obviously!

I'll stick with starlings next time