JSA saction help

merlin1979

Hello all,
I don't know if I post this here or if this kinda thing gets talked about or help given out.

I have just been moved to a new office after the Government decided not to have a centralised MIR teams, so moved back to my local office.
Today has been my first signing on day at the new office and I have already had a problem, the advisor I had has put my claim forward to a decision maker to be sanctioned with the letter he gave me saying "a doubt has arisen on your claim".
The advisor said I had not applied for any jobs on the Universal Job match site, I told him I did not find any that where suitable(I am not a qualified accountant ect) . He told me he has looked and found over 20, I asked him what ones and only name one, which was a trainee sales assistant, I said can you print it off for me, he replied no we are not here for that (Although my normal MIR advisor would always print jobs he found that I missed for me). So based on this he has put my claim forward to a decision maker. I have been actively seeking work my paperwork showed numerous C.V.'s sent to company's, showed evidence of me walking around town centres giving C.V.'s into all retail outlets I could find and also showed evidence of me looking on the UJM site for jobs. He said that speculative C.V's ect don't count as trying to get work or works to similar effect. So he handed me a letter with my next appointment with my normal advisor thank god and also a letter about my "Doubt" and did not give me my job search evidence back, So I asked him for it and he said he is keeping it, I told him " I want my evidence back", I wanted this evidence so I had it to hand for when and if I need to talk/appeal to the decision maker. He said he can photocopy it. So I said photocopy it then, He then in a angry manner said "I WILL". Hard to explain but he did not speak in a nice way and it seamed very aggressive. I feel like he wanted to sanction me from the moment I walked in, even the one Job he mentioned, that I was willing to apply for if he gave me the details which he refused, he got snotty about, when I mentioned I would apply for it but with my years of retail management experience I would probably not get it as they would not want to pay me the inevitable pay rises I would ask for based on my experience. He then went on and told me you cant get pay rises and that he cant, I said so if the guy next to you was less experienced/qualified than you and was on more money you would not ask for a payrise, he said no you cant. I think he lives in a dream world. The whole conversations I had just made me feel like he had one thing on his mind from the moment I sat down and that was to look for anything to place a sanction on me.

Sorry I have gone off track with a lot of this, but I am very frustrated witg the events of this morning. I would just like to know if I do get sanctioned what should I do, how should I do it and what wording ect should I use. I have been actively seeking work but just did not find any advertised jobs in the last 2 weeks. With him not giving me the job details of the jobs he said he could find, I would not even know if they where the other side of the country.... Need some help advice anything really very distressed atm. Thank you in advance for anyone who finds the time to help and is not judgemental of my situation.

tomtontom

How long have you been out of work for, are you still in the period when you can limit your job search?

merlin1979

Thanks Tom,

It is a strange one tbh.. I ended work via depression and was out of work with it for 12months, I then after 12months was put on JSA after being on ESA, then went on the work programme, which I found a job on. I was in that job for 1 year, then they changed our contracts to 0hr, meaning I was pretty much getting no work. So I had to claim again, because I had not been employed for 3 years they still classed me as "long term unemployed" and I went back on WP for 2 weeks. After that I was put on this new MIR team that you go on after WP. Been on this for about 8 months. So I cant restrict my my worksearch, which to be honest I don't want to restrict myself anyway. I currently have to do "24 activity's a week". Which I am and more tbh to find work.

tomtontom

In that case you are expected to apply for less senior roles than you are used to. You might know that you are unlikely to be successful, but if you fit/ exceed the criteria you are expected to apply.

With regard to the sanction you will have an opportunity to give your side of the story, and you can appeal the decision if it is not in your favour.

merlin1979

Yes Tom which I would have done and am willing to do, had the advisor given me the details of the job which I had not found, but he refused. The Job was not even given to me as a JSA directive, which I could understand if I had not applied for.

ArtoDeeto

What is an MIR team?

merlin1979 wrote: »

showed evidence of me walking around town centres giving C.V.'s into all retail outlets I could find

How can you show evidence of that? Assume you took a video?

merlin1979 wrote: »

I would just like to know if I do get sanctioned what should I do

Get a job and sign off - that will show them...

BillJones

merlin1979 wrote: »

I mentioned I would apply for it but with my years of retail management experience I would probably not get it as they would not want to pay me the inevitable pay rises I would ask for based on my experience.

Can you explain a bit more what you mean by this bit, please?

You seem to be saying that if you apply for the job you would have to demand more than the offered wage. I can see why your advisor would not be happy if this is right, if you'd not accept a job on the offered terms.

Why would you expect "inevitable" pay rises? Some jobs just pay x amount. If that's all you're offered, and you can't find other work, you can't say that you need Y pounds to start.

Morglin

merlin1979 wrote: »

Hello all,
I don't know if I post this here or if this kinda thing gets talked about or help given out.

I have just been moved to a new office after the Government decided not to have a centralised MIR teams, so moved back to my local office.
Today has been my first signing on day at the new office and I have already had a problem, the advisor I had has put my claim forward to a decision maker to be sanctioned with the letter he gave me saying "a doubt has arisen on your claim".
The advisor said I had not applied for any jobs on the Universal Job match site, I told him I did not find any that where suitable(I am not a qualified accountant ect) . He told me he has looked and found over 20, I asked him what ones and only name one, which was a trainee sales assistant, I said can you print it off for me, he replied no we are not here for that (Although my normal MIR advisor would always print jobs he found that I missed for me). So based on this he has put my claim forward to a decision maker. I have been actively seeking work my paperwork showed numerous C.V.'s sent to company's, showed evidence of me walking around town centres giving C.V.'s into all retail outlets I could find and also showed evidence of me looking on the UJM site for jobs. He said that speculative C.V's ect don't count as trying to get work or works to similar effect. So he handed me a letter with my next appointment with my normal advisor thank god and also a letter about my "Doubt" and did not give me my job search evidence back, So I asked him for it and he said he is keeping it, I told him " I want my evidence back", I wanted this evidence so I had it to hand for when and if I need to talk/appeal to the decision maker. He said he can photocopy it. So I said photocopy it then, He then in a angry manner said "I WILL". Hard to explain but he did not speak in a nice way and it seamed very aggressive. I feel like he wanted to sanction me from the moment I walked in, even the one Job he mentioned, that I was willing to apply for if he gave me the details which he refused, he got snotty about, when I mentioned I would apply for it but with my years of retail management experience I would probably not get it as they would not want to pay me the inevitable pay rises I would ask for based on my experience. He then went on and told me you cant get pay rises and that he cant, I said so if the guy next to you was less experienced/qualified than you and was on more money you would not ask for a payrise, he said no you cant. I think he lives in a dream world. The whole conversations I had just made me feel like he had one thing on his mind from the moment I sat down and that was to look for anything to place a sanction on me.

Sorry I have gone off track with a lot of this, but I am very frustrated witg the events of this morning. I would just like to know if I do get sanctioned what should I do, how should I do it and what wording ect should I use. I have been actively seeking work but just did not find any advertised jobs in the last 2 weeks. With him not giving me the job details of the jobs he said he could find, I would not even know if they where the other side of the country.... Need some help advice anything really very distressed atm. Thank you in advance for anyone who finds the time to help and is not judgemental of my situation.

A) You can appeal any sanction, so if you do get one, and feel it's unjust, then I would appeal it.

If you feel you are bring unfairly treated by any member of the JCP, you can make a formal complaint.

C) You can formally request, via the Job a Centre Manager, by sending a proper letter, sent by post for a change of advisor.

Independent info about sanctions:
http://www.thesite.org/money/benefits/jsa-sanctions-9197.html

How to complain about JCP staff:
https://www.gov.uk/complain-jobcentre-plus

Lin

Euphoria1z

just apply for all jobs that your able to do. hardly anyone ever gets back to you anyway so don't worry about the im too experienced/less experienced/too much money/too less money/too far/too close etc.

just apply (ive been applying for roughly 3 jobs a day for the past almost 3 months and have only had 2 calls to register with agencies. that's it).


I sometimes feel that over half the jobs are either very old but keep coming up as new, or are fakes... I have my doubts about the universal job match system.


use the universal job match to apply for jobs to keep the job centre staff happy...but look elsewhere i.e papers, local recruiters, agencies etc etc and keep proof of applications i.e emails, print outs.


and during your sign on, just say yes to what ever they say. don't argue. they say "heres a job for you, apply to be a NASA technician"..you don't say but im not qualified, you say yes, ill apply. its not as if your going to get it.

merlin1979

Euphoria1z wrote: »

just apply for all jobs that your able to do. hardly anyone ever gets back to you anyway so don't worry about the im too experienced/less experienced/too much money/too less money/too far/too close etc.

just apply (ive been applying for roughly 3 jobs a day for the past almost 3 months and have only had 2 calls to register with agencies. that's it).


I sometimes feel that over half the jobs are either very old but keep coming up as new, or are fakes... I have my doubts about the universal job match system.


use the universal job match to apply for jobs to keep the job centre staff happy...but look elsewhere i.e papers, local recruiters, agencies etc etc and keep proof of applications i.e emails, print outs.


and during your sign on, just say yes to what ever they say. don't argue. they say "heres a job for you, apply to be a NASA technician"..you don't say but im not qualified, you say yes, ill apply. its not as if your going to get it.

Yes UJM is a joke tbh. Anybody can put a advert on it, I have seen adverts for MI5 ect ect, It also ets spammed with Avon adds ect ect which if taken would still mean signing on as they don't allocate enough hours to be classed as employed. UJM is a joke tbh. I actually would have allied for the Job, but the guy refused point blank to give me any details on the job, saying something along the lines of "I'm not here for that" or words to that effect. Before I even mentioned I probably would not get it. For all I know the job may not have even existed as when I got home a endlessly search UJM going back 1 month and could not find the vacancy listed.

The other problem is the guy I saw was not my normal advisor as the team I am with has been moved from being a regional team, back to being a local team in local offices, so this was in a new office and my normal advisor was on a training day. So they guy that signed me also did not realise or listen to the fact that I was on a plan of action with my normal advisor that involved a more focused approach than just spamming applications.

merlin1979

BillJones wrote: »

Can you explain a bit more what you mean by this bit, please?

You seem to be saying that if you apply for the job you would have to demand more than the offered wage. I can see why your advisor would not be happy if this is right, if you'd not accept a job on the offered terms.

Why would you expect "inevitable" pay rises? Some jobs just pay x amount. If that's all you're offered, and you can't find other work, you can't say that you need Y pounds to start.

The guy mentioned the Job, I asked for the details of the Job and he point blank refused to give me them. The point being some Jobs do pay just what they want, It was a trainee sales assistant and I have over 10 years experience as a retail manager, Obviously with my experience I would ask for pay rises, any employer would know this would happen. So why employ someone with all that experience who would be asking for pay rises when they can employ a school leaver with 0 experience who would be less likely to ask for pay rises. TBH this was more of a diversion on the conversation out of my frustration of the advisor not giving me the details, yet trying to use the job against me. I am with a team in the JSA that is more focused on high quality applications to jobs that meet my skill set in a attempt to find employment. Unfortunatly the guy I saw was not from this team and would not listen when I tried to explain how my worksearch works and is focused.