Am I too late ? PCN charge

smiley1609

Hi guys, first MSE post so please be kind




I received a PCN a month ago, from a car park in Surrey and operated by Civil Enforcement Ltd. To cut a long story short, I entered my Reg mark incorrectly, and put the wrong extension to my entry.


I genuinely paid for my ticket, although also over-ran at the restaurant the 1 hr period by ~ 30 mins. The clarity on charges for this car park were ridiculous...two different entry requirements depending on pre-7pm or post-7pm, and on first read it appeared that the customer would need to pay up until 7pm, and afterwards there would be a free period.


I received a PCN, and immediately wrote a reply, with a photocopied ticket stub from the stay, and highlighting the typo I had made on the machine. I was hoping this would be voided at this point. A return letter from Civil enforcement stated that they would not cancel the PCN, and that in fact the overrun of time was the reason for issue. (the previous PCN it was highlighted due to the Reg mark).


I went back to the car park and photographed the signage...and the T&Cs in very small print did state that incorrect Reg Mark entry and overstay would result in a £60 reduced / £100 fine...


Very angry I wrote a further letter stating that the signs were virtually unreadable, the entry requirements and keypad entry make it virtually impossible to get it right, and to try and plead my case. I heard nothing back.


On the final day (yesterday), I rang them mid-morning, and to see the status of the fine. They said they hadn't received the 2nd letter from me, and that the fine stood. Also that it was the last day of the reduced rate before it goes up to the full £100. In which case, and due to the scaremongery, I got my CC out and paid the reduced rate.


Later having been pointed into these forums, I realised that perhaps I had been a bit rash in paying. I am a genuine person, and always pay for my parking, where the rules are understandable and clear. A genuine mistake in keypad entry (when raining hard), and in misreading their ridiculous entry rules for the parking.


Later in the evening yesterday I contacted Credit card services to see if I could interrupt the payment...it may be possible but will require the CC getting involved on a payment dispute...I will need good justification I feel.


Do you think I would have a case for trying to recover my money / fight this PCN notice at this stage ?? Have I gone too far down the process ?


I did write my own letters that possibly contravene many of the advice points from your Newbie thread guidance...i.e. don't mention being the driver... and other good advice.


Doh, if only I had seen this forum before making payment or writing letters, I may have been encouraged to follow the correct process !!


Kind Regards
Smiley (or not so smiley at the moment !)

Redx

I would send copies of all the letters to the BPA and DVLA as proof that you appealed and did not receive a popla code after the appeal was refused

I would also complain bitterly to the landowner

if you manage to get your money back, I would send the template letter from the newbies thread and copoies of previous letetrs and emails and demand cancellation or a popla code

I doubt you will get your money back now, but its worth a shot

its also not a fine (nor a penalty) , its an invoice

Custard_Pie

For me it would be a matter of principal. You'd probably have to issue a CCJ via the Small Claims, as I doubt that they will refund you anything. There is a process to follow though of asking, then officialy demanding. PPC's are exactly that, private companies who exist for profit alone. They don't do mitigation and will do anything in their power to hold onto your money.

Custard_Pie

Remember as well that it's not a fine, or a ticket, only the Police and Council appointed traffic wardens can issue them. It's an invoice for monies over an alleged breach of contract between the driver and the PPC for trespass on private property.

I'd say, as you did actually pay, the genuine pre-estimate of loss is a big fat zero.

smiley1609

Thanks for your replies guys. I wish that I had a clean case to start from scratch from again, although it seems I have perhaps made a couple of mistakes along the way.


I spoke extensively with the credit card services last night, although I think as I have handed my card details over, then a lengthy dispute claim will need to be completed with the bank. I will need to complete bank forms to tell the complete story and provide any evidence that I have...they will then make an informed judgement of whether I have a valid claim for re-imbursement of the money I was scaremongered into paying to the PPC. I just wonder on the banks view of circumstances...as I did go over my stay slightly, and made a mistake on keypad entry...both contravening the PPC T&Cs. (albeit unfair rules) !!


As I did actually pay I am guessing it will be a long road of letters to various locations...


I am angry, and my principles would tell me that I should have not paid...but the threat of a doubled up fee, and at the time I thought I didn't have a leg to stand on...I made a payment to just get rid of the burden and worry associated with having it looming over me.


I am a genuine guy, and always pay my parking. I am also technologically fairly savvy. So I feel sorry for the 'retired couple; that try and decipher the rules and terms of parking at some of these PPC car parks !!


The restaurant that I visited on the evening in question was dead as a dormouse. I certainly won't be using the particular car park in question again, and so the real loser is......


The restaurant and the quiet village high street where this PPC car park has been placed. (This was previously a free pay park...only in the last few months has it been changed)


-smiley

nigelbb

Don't forget to leave a suitable review on TripAdviser regarding the restaurant.

Umkomaas

I think you might have to put this down to experience unless your principles are so strong that you are going to spend a great deal of energy into a very slim chance of recovering your money, especially as CEL are going to be anything but a willing partner in this.

You should as a minimum, though, write a very strong letter to the restaurant (and any other outlet serviced by this car park) and, in no uncertain terms, tell them that your custom with them is terminated for the duration of CEL's involvement at that car park.

Whilst fighting individual charges against PPCs gives some satisfaction in winning, their PCN lifeblood is only available to them while the artery (landowner contract) remains in place.

smiley1609

nigelbb wrote: »

Don't forget to leave a suitable review on TripAdviser regarding the restaurant.

Good thinking...I have just left a review to warn potential customers to be VERY CAREFUL !!

Coupon-mad

Did the CEL rejection letter that said you 'had to pay' (LOL), include a POPLA code or not (important). What was the date on the rejection letter? Was this the Co-op?

smiley1609

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Did the CEL rejection letter that said you 'had to pay' (LOL), include a POPLA code or not (important). What was the date on the rejection letter? Was this the Co-op?

The letter that I received after my complaint letter was from Civil Enforcement Ltd and their Representations Team. It was dated 12th May 2014...original date of the incident was 27th April, and issue date on PCN 30th April.


Reading down the letter there is in fact a POPLA verification code...although I did not recognise the relevance in the first instance when I read it. I am obviously a bit more aware now having read your forum information, but I am assuming it is too late to progress now, with having already made a credit card payment ?


They have used the phrase 'Signs in the car park clearly state when making payment for parking the correct registration must be entered on the payment machine. On this occasion you failed to do so'.


'We Regret that the enforcement notice remains valid as the ticket was issued in accordance with the terms and conditions stated.'


Kind Regards
Smiley

Redx

check the popla code using the checker in the newbies section , although now its been paid I doubt you can now appeal to popla

a pity you didnt come here earlier and check info or ask questions , we could have easily helped you and probably have done so at nil cost to you