Re-do bathroom

pardal51

hi all,

we have a bathroom and toilet on separate rooms and planning to re-do it completely.

Basically we want to knock the wall between the 2 rooms and another wall (wardrobe recess into existing bathroom). One of the doors will be removed and a wall will replace it. The whole area will be around 5 or 6m2.

We want to remove all sanitary ware and tiles. Install the new bath to the other side of the bathroom and install a separate shower enclosure. WC bowl will be back-to-wall with hidden cistern. We want to tile the whole bathroom (top to bottom). Replace the existing double glazing window to a uPVC double glazing. Install new LED lighting and a powerful extractor fan. I appreciate that there is loads to be done, re-routing pipes, re-tiling, change window, etc.

Our neighbor (electrician) has recommended a builder and plumber to come around, check and provide a quote.

We have just heard from them and felt shocked: Builder £5,300 + plumber £3,500. We still need to get a quote with the electrician and buy the whole suite. Therefore we are looking at around £10K for labour alone.

Of course we have invited other people to come around and we are waiting for other quotes.

I am based in Herts so maybe not the cheapest are in the country.

The main problem I think is to find trustworthy people who can do a proper job.

I would appreciate comments.

Doozergirl

How do those quotes break down? What has each included?

As a builder, I have access to plumbers and electricians - it would be silly if we didn't. I'd expect a better price from someone able to run the whole job for you. If you hire people separately, something is going to mess up because people who don't know each other will not communicate and they can quite happily point the finger at someone else, regardless of how much you have paid.

Labour is by far the heaviest portion of a job like yours. You need a builder, glazier, electrician, plumber, carpenter, tiler and a plasterer!

pardal51

Doozergirl wrote: »

How do those quotes break down? What has each included?

As a builder, I have access to plumbers and electricians - it would be silly if we didn't. I'd expect a better price from someone able to run the whole job for you. If you hire people separately, something is going to mess up because people who don't know each other will not communicate and they can quite happily point the finger at someone else, regardless of how much you have paid.

Labour is by far the heaviest portion of a job like yours. You need a builder, glazier, electrician, plumber, carpenter, tiler and a plasterer!

Hi Doozegirl,

Builder and plumber work together in projects, so it will not be difficult in this case. Maybe that is why they are trying to reach this 10grand labour figure among them.

Summary of Builder's work: knock down 2x walls, re-plaster space. Remove all existing tiles. Skim ceiling. Re-tile top to bottom. Build recess for cistern, supply and fit new double-glazing window. Install new bath, shower enclosure, basin, WC, etc

Summary plumber: re-route all necessary pipes, install shower, etc

people tell me i could do the demolition and try to save some cash, but because i am no DIYer, it might become a false economy in the end.

I would appreciate further comments.

Cheers

pardal51

**The builder will act alone in terms of builder, glazier, carpenter, tiler and a plasterer

Doozergirl

I wouldn't pay anything like that for a jack of all trades to do nearly everything. You say they work together but they are crossing over on their quotations. If the builder fits the loo, what does the plumber do?

Have you decided on fittings yet?

andyhop

Seems extortion. We can fully strip your average 3mx 2m bathroom. Plaster fully off walls. Ceiling down, floor back to joists and replace everything with new in 10days with 2 men. Max labour price should be around 4k. 1k will get you all building materials , window supplied and fitted say £400-£800 for a rehau or kommerling with opaque glass. All certified and to current building standards

Shop around and ask friends and family for further recommendations. Don't write off bathroom fitters who do it all, we can finish jobs quicker, cheaper and leave a superior finish to using individual trades who haven't a foggiest how to tie all the trades together

A.Penny.Saved

Why do you want to combine the bathroom and toilet? That is something which I would never do because it basically renders the toilet unusable when anyone is using the bath/shower. I have always had separate bath & toilet rooms and would never consider combining them even though in my current property they are ajoining rooms.

I guess that you must of thought about this and decided that it is not a problem for you. I hope that no one develops a weak bladder or bowels, IBS etc because it will mean very quick baths/showers.

Snakey

I'll jump on your thread to say hello if I may because I am in a similar position, in fact we could almost be in the same flat in terms of what you want doing (differences: I'm not having a separate shower enclosure and I'm not touching the windows, but I am having underfloor heating and the remaining door re-hung so you walk into the middle of the room rather than creeping in along the side wall).

I've been quoted £14,600 (inc VAT) supply and fit on the basis of decent shower/tap fittings (hansgrohe or similar) and mid-range tiles. This is for central London. There would also be a planning application and so I would need to pay for an architect to do plans etc plus application fees. And I'm pretty sure the quote doesn't include all the fiddly stuff that you'd want like a nice bog-roll holder, soap-holder in the shower, bathroom cabinet etc which all mounts up if you don't plan on going to Poundland. I don't even want to admit what I was expecting it would cost, but this is all sufficiently above my budget that I have had to shelve the idea altogether.

So I'm afraid I have no advice to give you, but I will be watching this thread with interest.

Doozergirl

Out of interest, what did you think your budget should be, Snakey?

Why do you need a planning application? Is the building listed? If the work isn't complicated involving extensions etc then you could do drawings yourself relatively easily.

PlutoinCapricorn

I don't want to derail the thread, but I too am finding it all very interesting. The high quotations mentioned make me feel a little better.

I nearly died of shock when I first got a quotation. However, I did come to understand that I live in a very expensive area and that the value and position of the flat made it advisable to buy a high quality suite, tiles and fittings. I did look at what was available in a bathroom warehouse sale, but none of it was very attractive. Again, what I found on eBay was not very tempting either. What I bought should last for many years.

Labour costs were very high too, but I needed a lot of new pipework and electrical work as my flat had not been touched for decades. The people who did it all had been working as a team for many years and were recommended by neighbours.

I would certainly ask for detailed breakdowns of costs. Something unexpected often comes up, so allowing for this is advisable.

Snakey

Yep, the building is listed, and it's also ex-council and so I need to make a landlords planning application or something along those lines. I was surfing around this site yesterday and I ran across a suggestion that planning applications are a matter of public record - I haven't had time to look into that yet but perhaps I could go and find a similar knock-through that a neighbour has done (apparently it's a fairly common refurb to have done, on the estate) and use their submitted plans as a base for my own, which would save a lot of messing around.

As I've always previously rented I went into the whole builder/quote thing completely blind, as in, I literally had no idea what it might cost. I said at the start that I had a budget of £6k precisely so that he could tell me right away if I was being totally unrealistic to save wasting his and my time. When he didn't bat an eyelid I quietly congratulated myself on having got it more or less right. But after a couple of visits and more discussions (and no further mention of costs) he gave me the quote as above. So it may well not be objectively outrageous, it may be just what it costs to have stuff done around here, but to me since I'd got used to the idea of it being £6-7k it came as a real shock.