The rise of Extremism in Economically tough times

antrobus

BillJones wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that we are not experiencing strong growth across the economy now?

Why? What leads you to believe that the ONS, and others, are colluding to lie?

Do you think that there is "real" shadow data, that people such as me, working in high finance get to see, or are we being duped too? In that case, who has the real data, and what are they doing with it?

I suppose this shows how any form of words can be taken to mean anything if you try hard enough.

Personally, when prowla wrote "Nothing to worry about here; UKIP aren't extremists and the economy is in growth", I assumed that he meant exactly that and no more. But then I'm quite happy to accept that UKIP are not extremists.

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

antrobus wrote: »

I'd bet you, that with the benefit of hindsight, many Indians wish that they had been able to operate an immigration policy.

Just as I imagine, things would have turned out differently had the Roman-British administration of the 5th century here on the island of Brtain been able to operate an effective immigration policy.

The idea that a group of people (at any point in time) can get off a boat, plant a flag in the soil and say "I own this and no-one else can come here" is both ridiculous and unworkable.

antrobus

BACKFRMTHEEDGE wrote: »

The idea that a group of people (at any point in time) can get off a boat, plant a flag in the soil and say "I own this and no-one else can come here" is both ridiculous and unworkable.

You might think that it's 'ridiculous', but history has shown that, if you are willing and able to back up your claim with the force of arms, it is perfectly 'workable'.

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

antrobus wrote: »

You might think that it's 'ridiculous', but history has shown that, if you are willing and able to back up your claim with the force of arms, it is perfectly 'workable'.

History has shown that it is ridiculous and unworkable 'cos I can't think of any country that has no illegal immigrants ........ except for North Korea

setmefree2

antrobus wrote: »

You might think that it's 'ridiculous', but history has shown that, if you are willing and able to back up your claim with the force of arms, it is perfectly 'workable'.

But not in the least bit desirable.

A world without borders makes economic sense

What is the biggest single drag on the beleaguered global economy? Opponents of globalisation might point to the current crisis, which shrank the world economy by about 5%. Proponents of globalisation might point to the remaining barriers to international flows of goods and capital, which also serve to shrink the world economy by approximately 5%. That sounds like a lot.But the truly big fish are swimming elsewhere. The world impoverishes itself much more through blocking international migration than any other single class of international policy. A modest relaxation of barriers to human mobility between countries would bring more global economic prosperity than the total elimination of all remaining policy barriers to goods trade - every tariff, every quota - plus the elimination of every last restriction on the free movement of capital.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/sep/05/migration-increase-global-economy

Graham_Devon

So how do the pro-EU mindsets amonsgt us feel about the EU's reccomendations on our housing market? Specifically increasing council tax on highervalue properties and changing the help to buy scheme?

jamesmorgan

Graham_Devon wrote: »

So how do the pro-EU mindsets amonsgt us feel about the EU's reccomendations on our housing market? Specifically increasing council tax on highervalue properties and changing the help to buy scheme?

a) Right to buy - agree it needs change. All it does today is push prices up and make them less affordable for the people it is trying to help. There is a liquidity issue for people on low salaries as they can struggle to save for a deposit, so I would support a scheme focused on low salary workers.

b) Council Tax - I personally feel any tax on the ownership of assets is antiquated. I would favour its complete abolition and replacement of all local authority funding from general taxation (as it is only 22% comes from Council Tax). I recognise that the chance of this happening is about zero - on this basis, the EU recommendation has some merit.

As for the general observation on whether the EU should be giving advice to the UK, I think it is a good idea to receive 'impartial' advice from a 3rd party. Whether the UK government is mature enough to listen to it is another matter.

CLAPTON

the advice proffered, seem to be about 'convergence' with EU policies rather than improving UK economic performance.

EU politics on progress towards the super state, will always take priority over the current local difficulities of greece, spain, italy, france etc

antrobus

BACKFRMTHEEDGE wrote: »

History has shown that it is ridiculous and unworkable 'cos I can't think of any country that has no illegal immigrants ........ except for North Korea

But as far as history is concerned, there have been a number of times when people have indeed got off a boat, planted a flag in the soil and said "I own this and no-one else can come here". They have certainly succeeded as far as the owning bit goes.

setmefree2 wrote: »

But not in the least bit desirable....

Hang on a cotton pickin minute. You've just been arguing how desirable it was that the Brits and other European immigrants did just that in North America. Make your flippin mind up.

Seabee42

America at the time did of course have lots of free land (obviously not utilised by anyone) loads of resources under utilised and is obviously a barking comparison. The same way as increasing the population to pay for the elderly because that generation does the same and the next the population getting ever higher. Still lets just stop people paying for themselves.