driving slow : your views ?

DirectDebacle

Advanced drivers aren't taught to ignore speed limits.

BeenThroughItAll

bugslet wrote: »

As long as it is to the right of you.:)

I followed some numpty about three weeks ago, who was doing 60 in the outside lane of the motorway. I was just pootling along behind him thinking he was in a queue, when a car went down the middle lane and in front of him. In the next ten miles a further four cars did the same thing. Really he could have pulled over, there were plenty of long gaps. Very strange.

If there were gaps sufficient for cars to pass him on the inside, and indeed for him to pull over into, why were you sat behind him 'thinking he was in a queue'?


Surely when you pulled over to the left, in the gaps you've already stated were big enough (and therefore were aware he and hence you too should have been moving into), you'd have seen he wasn't in a queue?


Essentially as I read it, you too sat in the outside lane of the motorway for ten miles behind this person, and thereby became part of the problem?

BeenThroughItAll

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Advanced drivers aren't taught to ignore speed limits.

True, but they are taught to use maximised visibility, situation awareness and anticipation to make best progress within them... which is normally considerably quicker progress than a non-advanced driver.

AdrianC

DirectDebacle wrote: »

AdrianC wrote: »

So driving through an urban 30 limit can always be blah blah blah.

You asked a stupid question. Get over it.

<chuckle> I'll give that 6/10 on the flounce-o-meter.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

True, but they are taught to use maximised visibility, situation awareness and anticipation to make best progress within them... which is normally considerably quicker progress than a non-advanced driver.

...and it works too. I can think of several situations where I have been overtaken by an aggressive and impatient driver, yet have got to the parting of our ways ahead of him by driving within the speed limit and giving myself time to make choices of lanes at junctions rather than being trapped by being 6" off someone's bumper and having to have eyes glued ahead rather than being able to assess what is going on around.

The only thing you have to be wary of is winding people up by quietly slipping down the second lane at lights or roundabouts while everyone else blindly queues up on the left not realising that the two lanes are there to get traffic volume across a junction, and then afterwards have them cursing as to why you are crawling along at the speed limit having overtaken them - but that is highly satisfying when you've had the fist waving, apoplectic idiot overtaking into oncoming traffic to be one car in front of a 20 car queue.

bugslet

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

If there were gaps sufficient for cars to pass him on the inside, and indeed for him to pull over into, why were you sat behind him 'thinking he was in a queue'?


Surely when you pulled over to the left, in the gaps you've already stated were big enough (and therefore were aware he and hence you too should have been moving into), you'd have seen he wasn't in a queue?


Essentially as I read it, you too sat in the outside lane of the motorway for ten miles behind this person, and thereby became part of the problem?

Because it was so-so busy and it is often a solid line of traffic at the time of day, so it was a fairly reasonable assumption. I had been following him for some time and there had been vehicle (s) in front of him.

When the first car pulled into the middle lane to pass him, he didn't pull over, so it's fair to say that the car in front of me wouldn't have pulled over if I had sat in the middle lane, but the car behind me would have pulled up behind him and I'd have to pull back into the middle lane when I next came to a vehicle.

I prefer not to undertake and on the rare occasion that I have done so, it's usually led to flashing lights and gestures. I don't particularly like aggression on the road. In my view, whatever I did, be it undertaking, flashing at him to move over, changing lanes from middle to outer, to middle to outer repeatedly, wasn't great.

nobbysn*ts

Stoke wrote: »

So you're saying you have that little control over your throttle you can't cruise? You can't feel/hear the engine and judge your speed based on that? Once I'm up to 60Mph, I could happily drive like that for miles without ever having to look at my speedo and know that I'm doing roughly 60mph give or take maybe 1 or 2 mph at the very most. It doesn't take a genius, and you don't need cruise control, it just needs a driver who understands how their car engine sounds and feels when it's accelerating and then when it's cruising. The difference is particularly noticeable on a diesel, but you should be able to tell on a petrol.

I would have thought someone who talks like they have as much experience as you do, would understand how to cruise their vehicle... without the need for cruise control. Maybe I'm wrong.

No, you're happy to speed, and probably can manage to get up to around an extra 10% at about 65mph before you notice, or look at the speedo. I vary by about the same 10% you no doubt do, I just set my maximum at the speed limit, not my average. I'll let the speed creep up downhill, rather than have to waste energy braking, and equally, I'll probably no doubt vary by the same up a hill, without flooring the throttle. And I'll keep doing the same, as my car is happy at 56mph, and due to the torque band of the engine, speed will vary very little, and still give good economy. Pushing it faster means I'm off the power band, and needs constant fiddling to keep the pace, and to be honest, to shave 5s off the time it takes me to do a mile, I can't be bothered. And if you can't overtake me in 12 miles, you don't deserve that minute of your life back either.

nobbysn*ts

bugslet wrote: »

Because it was so-so busy and it is often a solid line of traffic at the time of day, so it was a fairly reasonable assumption. I had been following him for some time and there had been vehicle (s) in front of him.

When the first car pulled into the middle lane to pass him, he didn't pull over, so it's fair to say that the car in front of me wouldn't have pulled over if I had sat in the middle lane, but the car behind me would have pulled up behind him and I'd have to pull back into the middle lane when I next came to a vehicle.

I prefer not to undertake and on the rare occasion that I have done so, it's usually led to flashing lights and gestures. I don't particularly like aggression on the road. In my view, whatever I did, be it undertaking, flashing at him to move over, changing lanes from middle to outer, to middle to outer repeatedly, wasn't great.

To clarify? So you, like the driver in front, just pottered down the overtaking lane, as you have said, clearly overtaking nothing, as you assumed the overtaking lane was just queued up, by a string of motorists overtaking nothing? And you decided you couldn't pull in, as if you did find something to overtake, you would have to pull out again? Or have I missed something here? Apart from the obvious fact you were too close and too stressed to even realise, when you looked through the glass of the car in front, there wasn't anything in front of him?

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

To clarify? So you, like the driver in front, just pottered down the overtaking lane, as you have said, clearly overtaking nothing, as you assumed the overtaking lane was just queued up, by a string of motorists overtaking nothing? And you decided you couldn't pull in, as if you did find something to overtake, you would have to pull out again? Or have I missed something here? Apart from the obvious fact you were too close and too stressed to even realise, when you looked through the glass of the car in front, there wasn't anything in front of him?

It is a classic motorway scenario, lane 1 empty for the next mile and then 10 cars in a queue in lane 2, using the mental crutch that they are held up by the car in front.

Two things often happen in that scenario, nobody pulls out into lane 3 which happens to be empty, and nobody thinks "I could tidy up by pulling left."

Without undertaking, you may find that pulling left and sitting behind the queue triggers the same response in someone ahead.

The other thing that happens is that the car at the front leaves the motorway (they never pull into the inside lane until they leave) and the whole line accelerates until they meet the next blockage in the middle lane. However, if there is a dot on the horizon that turns out to be a lorry, then all of a sudden there will be a tactical early pull out into lane 3 and a mixture of "I am a very polite driver, I will hold up all the traffic behind for my new found friend in the car in front" combined with "I'll stuff the b*****, I'll just pull forward enough so he can't get out in front of me."

Actually, my pet hate on the roads is the "polite" driver who is so busy letting people out, whether it is at junctions or on the motorway, he fails to recognise that he is delaying many more people queuing behind him, and potentially setting someone up for an accident as they get used to assuming that drivers will ignore the normal priorities of the road. Same reason I would never beckon a pedestrian across the road (though I might hold back from them in a queue).

BillJones

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Advanced drivers aren't taught to ignore speed limits.

This is true, they are told to take them into account, as there is information contained in them. However, when I've done the Bike Safe course, provided by the police (the Met in my case), their instructions regarding speed limits were "Stick to 30s and 40s, beyond that, don't go silly, and remember, just because it's safe doesn't mean it's legal, and if you get a ticket, it's completely your fault".

What followed, each time I did it, was a day learning to make good and safe progress, which meant rising at least up to the speed limits, and doing it safely through learning to improve observation.