driving slow : your views ?

veryoldbear

Buellguy wrote: »

As has already been said - a numpty - also be aware it may be a delivery van looking for somewhere to drop off so may make stupid moves without indicating/looking etc

That's weird. I didn't know that white vans could actually go that slowly. Maybe he had mechanical problems. The other possibility is that was an 'orse box. They do strange things on windy NSL roads.

nobbysn*ts

almillar wrote: »

............The reality seems to be " always drive at prevailing speed limit: any more and it's illegal, and any less (even 1-2 mph less) and you're not making proper "progress" (whatever that may mean) ... mutter mutter...............

And that's the issue. Advanced driving means always spending more attention concentrating on the speed, dropping 1mph when the motorway has a slight gradient and you're a bad driver. Slowing to 27, rather than 30 through the high street, because you decide to give a bit of margin for the speed limit, and the examiner, (or the 'advanced' motorist behind), thinks your a bad driver. And the age old, 'well speedos are always slow' mob, and suddenly, 30 on the speedo is too slow. Me I allow for hazards, and make progress accordingly, so I can vary my speed up hills and down dales, but I set my limit at the speed limit, not my average. So, if I do vary, which we all do (apart from 'advanced' motorists), basically, tough. I haven't a ticket yet.

Cornucopia

You are going way beyond what has actually been stated.

The issue is whether your variation in speed has a rational and acceptable reason.

Not only that, but a mature driver will always have respect for other road users, even if they appear to lack skill/experience in what they are trying to do.

almillar

Examples of making progress, especially when compared to the L test standard. Yes, lots of it is sheer common sense. Yes, the 'language' comes a lot from 'Roadcraft' the Police driver training book.

Rolling through a Give Way instead of having to stop and start. Roundabouts included.
Rolling through a light that has turned green if you know the junction, instead of stopping at the red and starting again.
If a car is already occupying the inside lane at a junction, take the outside one so that you don't have to wait for them to move off (as long as it takes you where you want to go of course)
Overtake people if they're not doing the speed limit, and it's safe to do so.

No rocket science there, but it's about keeping moving and getting there safely without undue delay, and this does include plenty of observation.


nobbysn*ts

And that's the issue. Advanced driving means always spending more attention concentrating on the speed, dropping 1mph when the motorway has a slight gradient and you're a bad driver. Slowing to 27, rather than 30 through the high street, because you decide to give a bit of margin for the speed limit, and the examiner, (or the 'advanced' motorist behind), thinks your a bad driver. And the age old, 'well speedos are always slow' mob, and suddenly, 30 on the speedo is too slow. Me I allow for hazards, and make progress accordingly, so I can vary my speed up hills and down dales, but I set my limit at the speed limit, not my average. So, if I do vary, which we all do (apart from 'advanced' motorists), basically, tough. I haven't a ticket yet.

You posted a quote from me, but it wasn't mine - I responded to it.
You're completely wrong about advanced driving. If you drive along looking at your speedo more than the outside world you'll fail your test. If you speed up down hills over the speed limit you'll fail your test. If you slow down going up a hill, guess what, you'll fail your test. You will not fail your test if your examiner sees 71 or 69mph on your speedo the odd time. ADvanced driving is in fact the opposite of what you say, it means that you DON'T keep staring at your speedo and have more time to look around at what's going on around you.
Sounds like you need to practice holding a constant speed. That includes 'reading the road ahead' for hills (when's the last time a hill crept up on you?!)and correcting your throttle and gears appropriately.

Not getting a ticket has very little bearing on the quality of a driver BTW, but for the record, me neither.

IanMSpencer

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

And that's the issue. Advanced driving means always spending more attention concentrating on the speed, dropping 1mph when the motorway has a slight gradient and you're a bad driver. Slowing to 27, rather than 30 through the high street, because you decide to give a bit of margin for the speed limit, and the examiner, (or the 'advanced' motorist behind), thinks your a bad driver. And the age old, 'well speedos are always slow' mob, and suddenly, 30 on the speedo is too slow. Me I allow for hazards, and make progress accordingly, so I can vary my speed up hills and down dales, but I set my limit at the speed limit, not my average. So, if I do vary, which we all do (apart from 'advanced' motorists), basically, tough. I haven't a ticket yet.

Frankly, I don't see how you can write that when it is exactly not what an advanced driver would be taught or would do. Your comment on the High Street is especially bizarre because it is the classic example where you would be expected to be nowhere near the limit because of all the stuff going on around you.

As I've already said, aside from observation, attitude is the thing that is most strongly emphasised in Roadcraft and advanced driving courses - seeing other people act the idiot and simply avoid responding and reacting to them (aside from suitable avoiding strategies).

Observant, careful, thinking about the mechanics of the car, being in control at all times, planning ahead: that is being an advanced driver, not a check box of to-do lists at every manoeuvre.

You don't need a sticker to be an advanced driver, you do need an attitude.

dori2o

dada44 wrote: »

generally, i try not to hold up others. if i can pull over, if i see someone is quite impatient behind me , i probably wouldn't mind. the problem with asking the question i did, in a public forum, is i'll often get answers from ppl's sense of frustration and impatience, rather than good driving or from whatever is legal.

i do believe that if everyone drove slower, there would be far fewer accidents. i often feel quite a bit of pressure to keep up with others. i don't think it's a lack of confidence because i can drive faster, i just don't find it comfortable.

Driving too slowly can cause accidents just as driving too fast can. 15mph on a roundabout, assuming it's bigger than a mini one, is not only inconsiderate of those behind you, but IMO it is dangerous, on multi lane roundabouts especially i.e. when changing lanes to prepare to exit.

dori2o

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

And that's the issue. Advanced driving means always spending more attention concentrating on the speed, dropping 1mph when the motorway has a slight gradient and you're a bad driver. Slowing to 27, rather than 30 through the high street, because you decide to give a bit of margin for the speed limit, and the examiner, (or the 'advanced' motorist behind), thinks your a bad driver. And the age old, 'well speedos are always slow' mob, and suddenly, 30 on the speedo is too slow. Me I allow for hazards, and make progress accordingly, so I can vary my speed up hills and down dales, but I set my limit at the speed limit, not my average. So, if I do vary, which we all do (apart from 'advanced' motorists), basically, tough. I haven't a ticket yet.

Very, very few speedos on cars are accurate, no matter how cheap or expensive the car is, which is why every speed camera, fixed or mobile, has a tolerance built into it. Our local area has a tolerance of 10% plus 4mph which seems to be about the norm.

The biggest reason for most speedo's being out od sync has to do with what size wheels the speedo was calibrated with when the car was built in the factory. Once the car is on the forecourt, if it is sold with larger/smaller wheels, or has larger/smaller wheels fitted aftermarket then the speedo will be registering a reading which is too fast or too slow given that it meassures speed depending on how many revolutions the drive shaft makes.

There is also an issue with wear and tear, speedo's, like any other mechanical/electronic device will eventually start to wear out and the reading they give will not be as accurate. None of us realise this and it's not something picked up on an MOT as it's not part of the test.

So whilst you may dispute it, the fact is that most speedo's are out of sync with the actual speed being travelled..

nobbysn*ts

dori2o wrote: »

Very, very few speedos on cars are accurate, no matter how cheap or expensive the car is, which is why every speed camera, fixed or mobile, has a tolerance built into it. Our local area has a tolerance of 10% plus 4mph which seems to be about the norm.

The biggest reason for most speedo's being out od sync has to do with what size wheels the speedo was calibrated with when the car was built in the factory. Once the car is on the forecourt, if it is sold with larger/smaller wheels, or has larger/smaller wheels fitted aftermarket then the speedo will be registering a reading which is too fast or too slow given that it meassures speed depending on how many revolutions the drive shaft makes.

There is also an issue with wear and tear, speedo's, like any other mechanical/electronic device will eventually start to wear out and the reading they give will not be as accurate. None of us realise this and it's not something picked up on an MOT as it's not part of the test.

So whilst you may dispute it, the fact is that most speedo's are out of sync with the actual speed being travelled..

Nope. The majority of cars still have the wheels the were made with. The speedo is digital, with a sensor driving a stepper motor, so it's as precise as the day it was made. Mechanical speedo from years ago are the exception now. And as all mine agree with the sat nav to within a mile or two at most, at 70mph. I'm happy to confirm it's now an urban legend that went out with the cable from the gearbox.

Quiet_Spark

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

Nope. The majority of cars still have the wheels the were made with.

That may be so, but the rubber on the tyres is wearing all the time which alters the rolling radius.

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

The speedo is digital, with a sensor driving a stepper motor, so it's as precise as the day it was made.

The values in electronic components can (and do) change over time. For example, if a 100μF capacitor gets a little bit "weepy", it's value can quite easily drop to (say) 80μF and you would never know unless you tested it out of circuit (or an obvious fault was showing).

Not all speedo's read the same either. The speedo on the wifes car (14 month old 2 litre Grand C-Max) shows 60mph yet GPS shows the true speed to be 56mph.
In my Beemer (57 plate 325i Coupe), when the speedo shows 60mph the GPS shows 58mph.


One thing is guaranteed though, and that is all car speedo's over-read rather than under-read which probably explains why people get peed off when someone religiously sticks to 30 mph on the speedo when they could well be doing 26mph in reality.

veryoldbear

Just trying to put some figures on this tyre wear thing. The old bus outside has 215/55R16's on it, which gives me a nominal rolling diameter of about 650mm. If I wear down about 10mm of tread (for argument), the diameter would be 630mm and I reckon that would make about 3% difference on the speedo or say 2mph at NSL70.