Rent dispute

Kathymel

Good evening.

I have just left a property and have been told that I owe some rent on it. I have lived there for 12 years and have had a S.O. running for 9 or so years.

I have paid my rent on the 19th of every month from the start. I have always received an invoice for this around the 15th and would just check the amount was right before chucking it in the file.

When I informed the landlord's properties manager (PM) that my moving out date was 10 May and that I would be expecting a refund from my 19 April S.O. for the period 11-18 May. He informed me that my final S.O. only covered me up to the end of April and that I owed rent for the period 1-10 May.

Back in 2006 apparently, the landlord changed the rent date to the first of each month. This was shown on the invoice but I didn't notice. As far as I was concerned the rent still went out on the 19th with no break and nothing changed.

The PM suggested that perhaps payment wasn't taken around Mar 2006 when they changed their system. He pointed out that, this being the case, I also would owe rent from 19-31 Mar 2006, but that they would waive this if I paid the recent amount. I have asked him for their records of my payments because I believe there has been no gap, S.O. being automatic, but have not received them as yet.

I have asked my bank for statements from that time but they inform me that they don't keep customer records more than 6 years because of data protection. My own collection of statements only goes back to 2008 so I can provide no proof of my own as to whether the payment was made or not.

Two things have occurred to me:

1. Is there a statute of limitations that would prevent the landlord claiming the rent he claims I owe from 2006? I feel that the threat of it is being used to pressure me into paying the final bill without questioning it.

2. If the bank is prevented from keeping data for longer than 6 years, would this also apply to my landlord? I'm thinking that his records of my payments are a different kettle of data but thought it was an avenue worth exploring, just in case.

Thanks in advance for your advice, Kathy

AnnieO1234

What date did you commence the tenancy? I assume it's an AST that's now on a rolling contract?

Did you pay monthly or once every four weeks, on what date?

When did you make the first payment from memory?

Xxx

Kathymel

First payment was on 19 Oct 2001 when I started the tenancy.

I paid in advance, every month on the 19th, as per the agreement.

G_M

You moved in on 19th Oct 2001, so your tenancy periods now are 19th to 18th of each month.

So you owe rent to the 18th May. You cannot end a tenancy mid-period (unless the landlord agrees).

That assumes you gave notice on or before 18th April (you need to give a full tenancy period notice).

If you paid by Standing Order, only you could instruct your bank to change your payment date. Did you?

Or are you paying by Direct Debit (in which case the recipient - landlord/agent - controls the payment and may have changed the date. But this is unusual).

You say you have receipts filed. Get them out and check them.

Having said this, if the LL is claiming rent arrears, he needs to prove this. Write and ask for a written rent statement of all payments made or owed.

Kathymel

As long as a month's notice is given, a tenant can end the tenancy at any time, unless otherwise stated in the agreement.

A month's notice was given on 10 April.

I pay by standing order, not direct debit and have not changed the instruction other than to increase the rent payment when necessary.

I have already said that I only have invoices back to 2008.

I have asked for the landlord's records, as I stated, but have not yet received them.

Can anyone answer the questions I asked, please?

Annisele

Kathymel wrote: »

As long as a month's notice is given, a tenant can end the tenancy at any time, unless otherwise stated in the agreement.

That's where you're getting confused. See G_M's post about ending a tenancy (complete with references). The relevant bit is:

A tenant can end a SPT by giving the landlord at least one months Notice ending on either the last or 1st day of a Tenancy Period (see Crate v Miller 1947). It should be in writing & sent to the address "for the serving of notices" on the landlord.

If rent is paid monthly/weekly, then the Tenancy Periods run monthly/weekly starting the day after the FT ended.

Example:

A 6 month FT tenancy starts on 24th June. It therefore ends on 23rd December. Rent is paid monthly. If a SPT then continues, the Tenancy Periods run monthly from 24th to 23rd of each month. The tenant’s Notice must therefore end on the 23rd (or 24th) of the month.

If the tenant serves notice on 22nd March, then the notice expires on 23rd April (a full month ending on the last day of the Period). But if the tenant gave notice two days later, on 25th March, the notice would expire on 23rd May - a month later (since 23rd April is less than a month).


Note that the day rent is paid (which may or may not be aligned with the start of each Tenancy Period) is irrelevant.

I don't think your LL could claim rent from 2006 - but that isn't really what he'd be doing (despite what his numpty of an agent said). From what you say, he's legally entitled to rent up until the 18th of May 2014. That means it's a recent debt, not an ancient one from 2006.

As to records, banks are perfectly allowed to keep records for more than 6 years in some circumstances - and if the account still exists, they often do. There's nothing preventing your landlord from keeping details for that long.

jjlandlord

The landlord cannot just change the rent due date with the tenant's agreement.
Assuming it had indeed changed to the 1st of the month, either:
a. the first payment on the 1st should have been less since the period 1st to 18th had already been paid, or
b. payment on the 19th should have been skipped and first payment on the 1st should have been more to acount for the missing period from 19th to end of the month.

If OP moved in on the 19th of the month and has always paid rent monthly on the 19th of the month then the latest payment always cover the period up to the 18th of the following month.
Thus the claim that last rent payment will only cover to end of month is not correct.

In addition, it means that there is no unpaid rent for 2006.

princeofpounds

The rent due date is totally irrelevant anyway, except for determining HOW late you are, not how much you owe.

Calculate the number of whole tenancy periods (months) you have been in occupation.

Calculate that number of full rental payments you have made.

The two should match up.

As G_M and Annilese have said, if you left mid-period, the full period should be counted.

Kathymel

Thanks for all your answers.

Can I point out that the tenancy end date is not in dispute. My tenancy agreement simply states I must give one month's notice. The landlord accepted my notice to quit on 10 May without question.

It is the rental period change that is causing problems. The landlord claims that my final rent payment on 19 April covers 1-30 April and has suggested that there was a missed payment in March 2006 (but hasn't backed that up with evidence yet) and I have no evidence to prove otherwise.

The landlord has definitively stated that money is owed from 2006, as well as at the end of the tenancy. I think that this means the statute of limitations has passed for claiming the 2006 sum back if it turns out there was a missed payment. However, given that it was set up as a standing order and I did not change it, I fail to see how it could have been missed.

If I only have the landlord's (presumably falsifiable) records to go on, where do I stand? Do I have the right to ask to see bank statements from 2006 (my landlord is a very large charity)? I personally have no way of checking payments against rent.

I was never informed of the change of date and the money continued to go out on the 19th of every month. Is this an error on his part that favours me?

AnnieO1234

Have you actually spoken to your bank? Are you absolutely certain every standing order has been met, remembering if you lacked funds it would not have been?

Aren't you supposed to receive a balance statement yearly or am I imagining that?

I believe any statute of limitations doesn't apply here as you were contractually bound to make the rental payments, it's not like a sudden chase for non-invoicing as they wouldn't invoice you monthly for rent.

You would not be able to see the bank account statements, well you could try but I am certain that they will hide behind commercial sensitivity.

Xx

SeduLOUs

AnnieO1234 wrote: »

You would not be able to see the bank account statements, well you could try but I am certain that they will hide behind commercial sensitivity.

Xx

You can see your own bank statements though. Pop into the bank and get a prinout of all the transactions since the date you moved in if you can't do it yourself on online banking.

As someone already said you can then count up the months, and count up the payments to find out if they match or not.