esa and holiday abroad?

[Deleted User]

epitome wrote: »

What is the form called? what number on the front cover bottom corner?

ahhh sorry i posted it back at lunchtime and didnt photocopy all of it

epitome

Was it all about going on holiday? Or did a lot of the questions appear to be irrelevant?

Seems strange to have had a form, that big, sent out. The person who booked you a callback had no clue....had you phoned and spoken to someone else.... they would have just noted on the file that you called to say you were going away, and said "call us when you get back, dont go for longer than 28 days and call us if something goes wrong". No need for a callback from the BC.

When you got your callback sounds like you got someone else who had no clue and they have sent you an unecessary form.

ValerieR

Hi there, my husband is on contribution based ESA and now that I am retired, I want to spend most of the summer abroad (within the EU). We contacted the DWP in March 2015 and asked how this would affect his benefit and they told us that there was a maximum 26 week limit and he had to write in to confirm the date of departure - which we did - and subsequently the date of return. After we notified DWP of our return, my husband received a letter from DWP telling him that he was only entitled to FOUR weeks benefit and that he would have to repay the rest! DWP also closed down his ESA claim and started up a new one, which meant that he lost the transitional ''top up'' payment which he had been getting following his migrations from IB to E&SA. We requested a mandatory reconsideration and DWP have now cancelled their demand for repayment on the basis that my husband did nothing wrong, but they still insist that their decision is correct.
I have read the Regulations and they are really ambiguous. There is a four week limit on ESA,in general, but there is a separate paragraph specific to contribution based ESA which states that this particular benefit will continue to be paid during a temporary absence from the UK (with no definition of ''temporary''). DWP seem to be saying that the general four week limit carries through to this paragraph which is specific to contribution based E&SA, but I don't agree. In any event, these Regulations are at best undeniably ambiguous and, by the principle of contra proferentum, the interpretation must surely favour the claimant.
I am also wondering whether there is some EU Directive or Ruling that applies here as surely a contribution based benefit should be exportable within the EU?
I would be really grateful if anyone out there has any information, opinions or comments which might help as we really need to know where we stand for the future.

specialboy

Start a new thread, this one is over 18 months old and you will probably get better advice with a new thread.

epitome

ValerieR wrote: »

Hi there, my husband is on contribution based ESA and now that I am retired, I want to spend most of the summer abroad (within the EU). We contacted the DWP in March 2015 and asked how this would affect his benefit and they told us that there was a maximum 26 week limit and he had to write in to confirm the date of departure - which we did - and subsequently the date of return. After we notified DWP of our return, my husband received a letter from DWP telling him that he was only entitled to FOUR weeks benefit and that he would have to repay the rest! DWP also closed down his ESA claim and started up a new one, which meant that he lost the transitional ''top up'' payment which he had been getting following his migrations from IB to E&SA. We requested a mandatory reconsideration and DWP have now cancelled their demand for repayment on the basis that my husband did nothing wrong, but they still insist that their decision is correct.
I have read the Regulations and they are really ambiguous. There is a four week limit on ESA,in general, but there is a separate paragraph specific to contribution based ESA which states that this particular benefit will continue to be paid during a temporary absence from the UK (with no definition of ''temporary''). DWP seem to be saying that the general four week limit carries through to this paragraph which is specific to contribution based E&SA, but I don't agree. In any event, these Regulations are at best undeniably ambiguous and, by the principle of contra proferentum, the interpretation must surely favour the claimant.
I am also wondering whether there is some EU Directive or Ruling that applies here as surely a contribution based benefit should be exportable within the EU?
I would be really grateful if anyone out there has any information, opinions or comments which might help as we really need to know where we stand for the future.

ESA C or IR can be paid whilst on holiday outside UK for up to 28 days (days of departure and arrival are counted as days within the UK though you might have to fight the DWP if you have a decision made by someone who does not understand that the day of departure and arrival are not counted).


ESA C & IR can be paid for a temporary absence upto 26 weeks under certain circumstances which I believe is limited to receiving healthcare treatment paid for on the NHS and arranged prior to travel and that the sole purpose of the travel is for the healthcare treatment.

ESA C can be exported from the UK permanently if you go to live within the EU and you tell DWP in advance that you want to export your ESA C abroad permanently. (you cannot do this for a 5 month holiday it has to be your intention to live abroad.) I don't know what would happen if you wanted to then move back to the UK at a later date.

As to your husbands ESA C, he did inform DWP he was going abroad, the person he spoke to did not give correct advice and did not take correct action on his claim, they should have notified the BC that he had informed DWP of his intention to go abroad temporarily for more the 28 days and therefore the DWP should have put a suspension on his payments after the intial 28 days from date of departure, and then subsequently closed his claim.

Because he did inform DWP of his intention to leave the UK for more than 28 days, and because the DWP did not take the right action, all overpayments will be non recoverable and his claim would remain closed. He can claim again though may not qualify again.

Jim_Cooke

epitome wrote: »

ESA C or IR can be paid whilst on holiday outside UK for up to 28 days (days of departure and arrival are counted as days within the UK though you might have to fight the DWP if you have a decision made by someone who does not understand that the day of departure and arrival are not counted).

Please does anyone have a link to the appropriate legislation in case the DWP count the days of departure and arrival as days away?

NYM

Jim_Cooke wrote: »

Please does anyone have a link to the appropriate legislation in case the DWP count the days of departure and arrival as days away?

See ...C4008

With regard to any particular day, a person should be regarded as present if they are in GB for part of a day: thus the day when a person arrives in GB and a day when they leave count as days when they are “in” GB.

epitome

Jim_Cooke wrote: »

Please does anyone have a link to the appropriate legislation in case the DWP count the days of departure and arrival as days away?

What are the odds? I come back to this forum for the first time, in a long time, and I see one of my old threads bumped up on the first page...

Don't worry about it Jim Cooke, it is stated within DWP guidance and cannot be denied if you have to challenge the DWP on it.

So you can go on holiday outside UK for 28 days outside UK. Day of departure and day of return are not counted within the 28 days. A "day" is midnight to midnight. So if you land at 2am in UK *that day* is the day of return, i.e. if your flight left USA at 1pm on 16th Novemeber, but landed in UK at 6am on 17th November, your "day in the UK" is the 17th November.

You don't have to tell the DWP before you go, or when you get back. you only have to tell them (before going) if you are going for longer than 28 days or you end up being outside more than 28 days. Then you need to tell them ASAP to avoid an overpayment of ESA and Housing Benefit.

However if you do tell them before you go and you are in the assessment phase, they should set an Availability Constraint for the dates you are away, so that you do not get a WCA appointment when you are away. Likewise if you are in WRAG or SG but your "reassessment phase" will become due while you are away.

Jim_Cooke

NYM wrote: »

See ...C4008

With regard to any particular day, a person should be regarded as present if they are in GB for part of a day: thus the day when a person arrives in GB and a day when they leave count as days when they are “in” GB.

It seems there is another complication. The document you linked to refers to what is known as "new style ESA", as such it only covers claims for ESA made under Universal Credit, there is separate documentation for "old style ESA". http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?view=topic&catid=10&id=112373#173715

epitome

Jim_Cooke wrote: »

It seems there is another complication. The document you linked to refers to what is known as "new style ESA", as such it only covers claims for ESA made under Universal Credit, there is separate documentation for "old style ESA". http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum?view=topic&catid=10&id=112373#173715

Does not matter, it is the same definition and rule for old style ESA.

But the first part of Gordon's reply is incorrect. If the re-assement is due to begin in April 2017, the claimaint can expect to get an ESA50 about 2 weeks after the re-assessment begins, so if it is 01/04/2017 then expect it around 15/04/2017... and so on.

Gordons 2nd reply is correct, but they could alternatively get a paper ESA50 from the jobcentre or by phoning ESA now if they really wanted to.

James45 (is that you Jim?) says "CESA (is that supposed to be ESA (C)?) can go abroad for upto 4 weeks without telling DWP,...." It is not limited to ESA(C) it applies equally to ESA(IR).

Gordon's reply to James, ....
*As I said, the 28days abroad also applies to old style ESA.
* ESA, claimants do not have seek the permission of the Secretary of State for an absence from the UK for 28 days or less. The link is up there in this thread somewhere. It also applies to absence from your home for a holiday within the UK with no time limits.... though I'm not sure how sucessful you will be using this as a reason for Good Cause within the UK. especially as a catch-all excuse that you re-use time and again, and it would be easier to use if you had say a evidence of a booking for a holiday let or hotel within the UK.
* If you were outside UK when your ESA50 arrived, or if a WCA appointment was made for you, then if the sole reason was your being outside UK, you should have Good Cause Allowed, I agree with Gordon, that you would have to check your post really quick when you return, and post (or scan from a Jobcentre) your ESA50 if it is still within the deadline, putting reasons why it is near the deadline or late on page 2. Or attend your WCA if it is within the next few days of your return.