probate help family getting out of control

BobQ

Somerset wrote: »

2) Genuine gifts/help where an older person (or anyone) has all their facilities and choose's to gift whatever to whoever. It is their property and they can do what they like with it. I'd assume this is your position.
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If you are stating (2) I think it impacts the estate but no, you don't have to repay. Gifts within X years of death springs to mind where there's a tax claw-back, but check it yourself. It also shouldn't affect the distribution per the will ie your inheritance if any.
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26K is a lot of money.

There is another reason the executor may be concerned. Even if he accepts that some or all of the £26K were gifts, he is expected to complete an IHT form. Depending on the value of the estate HMRC may be more or less interested in the gifts. Say the value of the OP's Dad's estate was £350K. All gifts above £3K in the last 7 years need to be entered on the form (or BIL needs to be able to say none). While smaller gifts from income are allowed, if he was spending more than his disposable income (ie his capital) HMRC might view this as gifts. If Dad's estate was well below the £325K they would not be interested from an IHT viewpoint.

OP, £26K over 4 years is significant but not a fortune if the cheques align with birthdays and the Dad was sufficiently active to be able to go places with help (what does housebound mean?).

For example, if he was in the habit of taking taxis but needed to be accompanied (or pushed in a wheelchair) and insisted on buying lunch when he did go out, or liked a drive in the country and insisted in paying the petrol, or relied on your car so insisted in paying your car tax or whatever. Only you know the real situation.

I had a relative who was arguably housebound, but various people used to push his wheelchair miles around town (pub to pub) and sometimes on a train. He was very appreciative (he had a social life) and insisted on paying for everything. As ever it depends on circumstances!

micmac22

Thank you all for your varied responses this is the great thing about MSE.
please be assured i had no ill intent towards my father.
However i don't trust my BIL for family reasons and we have never talked for over 20yrs and never will. i was surprised to read that my father made him joint executor they changed the will just before he died. And i dont even know what if anything i may receive.
And as far as i was aware my sister his wife had power of attorney not him. and if she had sent the email i would of answered her, but i think she would of called me, and i am sure it would of been a week or so after we laid our father to rest not 2 days.
Thank you for pointing me in some other directions i will look into your suggestions.

Savvy_Sue

When Power of Attorney is activated then all the family members named on the application will be contacted. Did this not happen?

getmore4less

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

When Power of Attorney is activated then all the family members named on the application will be contacted. Did this not happen?

It is possible to set up a POA with no family notifications in fact no notifications to anyone except the solicitor setting up the POA.

micmac22

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

When Power of Attorney is activated then all the family members named on the application will be contacted. Did this not happen?

No this did not happen, but Dad let all the family know many many years ago that sister would have power of attorney but never said anything about her husband.

Ozzuk

Pretty nasty BiL jumping on you 2 days after event. Does sound like this was an underlying issue for them/him.

Hope you get it sorted.

TBagpuss

I agree with PPs that your original e-mail was unfortunate.

I would be inclinded to write to the solicitors.

Say that you feel things got off on the wrong foot, that you were surprised to see BiL acting as executor as you would have expected your dad to appoint one (or more) of his own children, and in light of historical issues you were wary of dealing with him without evidence that he was the appropriate person.

Say that now you have that confirmation you are, of course, more than happy to cooperate fully to help them deal with the estate.

Then set out what you did, and when. Be clear that your father gave you money as gifts but that there was never any suggestion that this was an advance on your inheritance, and that you assume that if your father had intended that, he would have recorded that intention. (there is something called 'advancement' where gifts may be considered to be part of an inheritance, but I don't *think* this is generally presumed, I think there would need to be some evidence that that was the intention of the giver.

Ask them if they need details of the lifetime gifts which your dad gave you and tell them that if so, you will do your best to provide this information but be clear that he did not give you all of the money you withdrew for him at his request and that you cannot give exact figures for cash gifts (assuming that is true)

The only period which may be an issue is that after the PoA came into effect - was this registered because your dad was no longer able to deal with his own affairs? If so, then I think this may mean that he was no longer competent to authorise you to withdraw the money for him or to give it to you, so you may have to return money given you within that final period (or offset it against your share of the estate) However, if it was simply a straight PoA it allows the holder to act on the donor's behalf but does not stop the donor also acting for himself, so your dad was still free to give you or your family gifts if he wished.

Do consider, too, whether you feel that your dad would have realised that he may have given you £26k (if that figure is correct) and whether he would, if he thought about it, have wanted that amount to be gifted to you over and above what you may get under the will. If you decide that he may not have realised that he had given you quite so much, you may decide that it would be ethically right to make some voluntary adjustment. But that is matter for you. To me, it would depend on things like how much the estate was worth in total (i.e. is £26K a big proportion of the estate) what your relationship with you dad was like, compared to his relationship with your siblings (i.e. how likely is it he would have favoured you over them, or wanted to reward you if you were more attentive to him during his lifetime)

W1zz

micmac22 wrote: »

i was surprised to read that my father made him joint executor they changed the will just before he died.

Are you sure that the most recent will has been obtained?

Reason I ask, is that my father passed away over two weeks ago (5th May) and I've been sorting out his estate with my mother. We soon found out that their bank held a old copy of the the will from 15 years ago, but mum remembered they had made newer wills which she had a copy of.

nom_de_plume

getmore4less wrote: »

It is possible to set up a POA with no family notifications in fact no notifications to anyone except the solicitor setting up the POA.

An older Enduring Power of Attorney requires the notification of at least 3 family members when registering it and if there are more than 3 family members in the 'family tree' level being notified then all people in that level.

With regards to the executor / will change just before he died, was this after the BIL sold the house? I wonder if the will mentions the house, which now no longer exists to form a part of the estate?

Mojisola

micmac22 wrote: »

i was surprised to read that my father made him joint executor they changed the will just before he died.

And as far as i was aware my sister his wife had power of attorney

If your father wasn't competent to manage his affairs and needed your sister as POA, how was your father able to make a new will?