Notice To Quit - No Signed Lease

enigmo

I have an issue and am a bit confused as to where I stand legally. We rent privately and have just received a letter from our landlord telling us he would like to take possession of the property. He did call me and tell me this on May 1st as well, but nothing on paper arrived until today (just stamped, no proof of delivery). But, we cannot leave until July 26th, as in the past few weeks we have found a new place to go, but in his letter he has stipulated he wants us out by July 1st, and any stay past that date will incur a massive rent increase. So I guess my basic questions are:
Seeing as we are renting without a lease (it expired a long time ago and despite my requests a new one was never prepared or signed) how long a notice period is he required to give?
If he is insisting on July 1st but we stay until July 26th, how legally enforceable is this rent increase for that month?


I believe, and I might be wrong, under the current situation we are Tenants At Will, and as such are entitled to notice of 2 full rental periods, and as I pay rent on the 28th of each month and his notice came after this date, we are entitled to stay for June and up until July 27th. Added complication is he has yet to provide us with a Protected Deposit certificate, so I think he cannot even serve us such a notice.
I am calling the council/CAB tomorrow anyway for clarification, but I was wondering if anyone here has any insights.
Thanks

00ec25

you say your location is London but you are using mixed jargon which has very specific meanings in each country - please confirm which of these you are in:
- Scotland
- Northern Ireland
- England & Wales

also, whilst you say you have no signed tenancy agreement ("lease") please state the exact date/year you moved in because the lack of a signed bit of paper does not alter the fact you do have a lease and the date it started is very important

enigmo

England & Wales

00ec25

sorry I added an extra bit after you replied: please state the exact date/year you moved in because the lack of a signed bit of paper does not alter the fact you do have a lease and the date it started is very important.

notice to quit is not an E&W term, you have received a notice seeking repossession (a "section 21" notice) not an NTQ

the LL cannot repossess within the first 6 months of your occupation. After then he can serve a S21 because the default is that you automatically have an assured shorthold tenancy even if there is no paper to that effect. In the absence of paper, after 6 months you have a statutory periodic tenancy and the format and timing of the S21 depends on the original start date

based on the info you give so far
- lack of proscribed information re your deposit
- date he sent ("served") you written (not verbal) notice
the LL has not given valid notice and if you stayed on from July 1 to July 26 he cannot physically evict you (that would be a criminal offence) until he goes to court and gets a court awarded eviction notice

your tenancy has not yet been terminated and whilst you would have to pay rent for that extension period he cannot charge extra. If he does go to court then given the timings you would most probably have already left on 26 jul anyway so he would be wasting his time in so doing

enigmo

Thanks for getting back to me
Our original tenancy began on Oct.21st 2011 and we haven't had a full, 'valid' lease after the first year.
If what you have said still holds, does that mean we would then have to serve notice on him that we are leaving?

G_M

It seems you have a periodic (monthly) AST (Assured Shorthold Tenancy). Whether it is written, or verbal, matters not.

If the paper you have received is a S21 (1)(b) then it must be 2 calender months from the date served (received).

If it was a S21 (4)(a), then 2 tenancy periods. Note the date you pay rent does NOT determine the tenancy period. It is the start date of the 1st period that matters.

See


Ending/Renewing an AST (what happens when the Fixed Term ends?)(What is a Periodic Tenancy?)(How can a LL remove a tenant?)(How can a tenant end a tenancy?)

As for the rent increase - since there is no written agreement, there can be no terms for rent increases. In that case, the LL must serve a
Section 13 Notice
See

Rent increases (how and when can rent be changed)

G_M

enigmo wrote: »

Thanks for getting back to me
Our original tenancy began on Oct.21st 2011 and we haven't had a full, 'valid' lease after the first year.
If what you have said still holds, does that mean we would then have to serve notice on him that we are leaving?

Your tenancy periods run from 21st to 20th of each month.

You have had a valid Statutory Periodic Tenancy since Oct 2012.

If you wish to leave before the date your LL has given you, you must either

1) reach agreement with him ot
2) serve notice (see my link in post above)

If you do NOT wish to leave even on the date your LL has given you (even assuming he used a valid S21 Notice (did he?), you do not have to.

There are only 2 ways a tenancy can be ended

1) the tenant serves notice
2) a court orders possesion following a valid S21. And courts take time...

jjlandlord

G_M wrote: »

As for the rent increase - since there is no written agreement, there can be no terms for rent increases.

Well, that depends on the terms of the initial fixed term tenancy, which seems to be in writing.

00ec25

so assuming you pay rent once per month your rental period runs from the 21st of each month to the 20th of the following month

given you have received written notice today Monday 19th May (so before the start of a rental period) it then depends on whether it is an (a) or a (b) regarding the expiry date on the notice. For the notice to be valid it must state an expiry date on/after 19th July (S21b - ie 2 months) or after 20th July (S21a - ie 2 full rental periods)

if the letter says an earlier date it is invalid and in all cases there is no way the LL served valid notice wef 1 May.

also , and most importantly, you say he has not given you the deposit details - legally he must give you the formal "Prescribed information" within 30 days of taking the deposit from you. If he did not do that then he can never issue you with a S21 notice until after he has returned the deposit in full

Do note however in law rental periods are indivisible, so stay those extra 6 days from 20th to 26th and the LL is entitled to be paid a whole months rent, but he cannot charge you an inflated rate, only the normal rate. You may think you should only pay for 6 days, but the decision to pro rata is one of mutual agreement, not a given right

G_M

jjlandlord wrote: »

Well, that depends on the terms of the initial fixed term tenancy, which seems to be in writing.

Yes. I realise ethat now. Got misled by the thread title:

No Signed Lease

enigmo

Wow, that's brilliant, thanks!
Not that I'm especially looking forward to telling this guy he's in tthe wrong, but it's certainly a small weight off my mind and I can concentrate on things like new nurseries and moving teams.
I don't think he served a proper sec. 21, but I'm unsure how I'd know. It was a letter simply stating that further to our telephone conversation on May 1st he was writing to say he intended to take possession of the property on July 1st and any delay on that would mean a rent increase. It wasn't a formal letter in 'legalese', if you will, barely a note, it did not include his address, only mine, and as he has never produced a deposit certificate I'm not sure he can even do a sec. 21 anyway. Also, the letter was dated May 1st, but only arrived today and was postmarked the 17th. Don't know if any of that makes any difference