Custom order not delivered

JimmyTheWig

Hi,

We placed an order online for a custom made item.
Paid on credit card via PayPal, if that makes sense? I.e. it wasn't a PayPal payment, but the credit card statement is "Paypal <companyname>".
They gave a date for delivery. This came and went. Contacted them. There had been some confusion with the order but it was in process and would be ready for shipping on Friday.
Friday came and went. Emailed them on Sunday. No response.
Phoned various times since, going straight to voicemail. Have left a voicemail message, but no response.
There is a snailmail address (sounds like a company address but can't find a shop there on streetview) but this seems like a bit of a waste of time if they are not replying to our other means of communication.

While it looked, at first, online to be quite a reasonably sized organisation it now appears to us to be a single person operating by themselves.

The delivery of this is now holding up our building work.
Hopefully there's just been a further delay and it will be delivered in the next day or so.
But if not, what do we do?

* Because the payment was made, somehow, through Paypal can we claim for non-delivery through them? Does the fact that it is custom made mean that we can't claim through Paypal even if it isn't delivered?
* Can we do a Section 75 through the credit card, or does Paypal's involvement mean we can't do this?
* If we can't go through either of the above, can we proceed to small claims even though we seem unable to contact them?
* At what point of non-communication can we assume that the order is not going to be fullfilled? If we order another one elsewhere then this one turns up out of the blue where do we stand?


Thanks,
Jim

bod1467

S75 claim may be a bit dubious because you don't have a direct financial relationship with the seller - you paid Paypal who then paid the seller, so the first step of the transaction completed successfully (Paypal did what they were "paid" for).

Buyer - CC - Seller ... S75 covers this (subject to certain criteria, like the item value is £100 or more)

Buyer - CC - Paypal - Seller ... S75 may not cover this

You may still be able to do a chargeback though for non-delivery of goods.

JimmyTheWig

bod1467 wrote: »

S75 claim may be a bit dubious because you don't have a direct financial relationship with the seller - you paid Paypal who then paid the seller, so the first step of the transaction completed successfully (Paypal did what they were "paid" for).

That's what I was concerned about.

You may still be able to do a chargeback though for non-delivery of goods.

Chargeback via the credit card company? Or through Paypal?


And any ideas on at what point it becomes non-delivery?

browneyedbazzi

How long ago was the order placed? How did they say delivery would take? Is the seller based in the UK?

I think your first step should be to raise a claim through paypal for non-delivery of goods. I haven't had to do this before, but believe they have time limits on making a claim so you should check if a limit does apply and make sure you raise any claim in time.

JimmyTheWig

Order was placed 4 and a half weeks ago.
They initially said delivery would be 3 weeks.

Paypal has a 45 day limit to raising a claim, which we are still within, but I'm not sure that we can claim through them as it is a custom made item.

bod1467

A failure to deliver is a failure to deliver ... send the seller another message saying that if you don't get a response within [choose a period, e.g. 2 days] with a confirmed delivery date then you'll raise a Paypal claim for non-delivery of goods.

(Do you have previous delivery advice in writing, e.g. email form? That will help with your Paypal claim).

oldoakey

We make bespoke furniture and from time to time we run over delivery dates due to illness, the weather, bank holidays the list is endless and because the guys that make for me are usually no more than 2 or 3 man bands then just being one man down has a direct impact on deliveries out.

I would check the retailers terms & conditions first as they may have terms in there that state they can alter the delivery date due to things out of their control.

Although I must say he should at least reply to your calls and supply you with some sort of answer even if its not what you want to hear.

If you do get in touch directly with the retailer then I would tell them you are giving them 7 days to deliver this product or you want a full refund. Keep records of all conversations date time and who and what said - just in case.

Good Luck

JimmyTheWig

oldoakey wrote: »

We make bespoke furniture and...

Thanks for taking the time to comment. It's always good to see it from the other point of view.

Although I must say he should at least reply to your calls and supply you with some sort of answer even if its not what you want to hear.

Exactly. The first delay was annoying. A second delay would be very frustrating. But to not let us know about the delay is much worse than the delay itself.

If you do get in touch directly with the retailer then I would tell them you are giving them 7 days to deliver this product or you want a full refund.

bod1467 wrote: »

send the seller another message saying that if you don't get a response within [choose a period, e.g. 2 days] with a confirmed delivery date then you'll raise a Paypal claim for non-delivery of goods.

Yes, this is sounding like the way forward.

browneyedbazzi

oldoakey - the retailer may well have terms and conditions stating that they can change the delivery date but the distance selling regs set standards for performance of contracts and retailers cannot contract out provisions of the regulations. Attempting to contract out a statutory right will likely invalidate the contract and may even be fraud/CPR offences. If your terms and conditions do this then you really should have another look at them.

OP - The distance selling regs say that a distance sales contract must be fulfilled within 30 days (starting on the day after the order was placed) unless otherwise agreed with the customer. If the seller told you they would deliver in 3 weeks and still hasn't delivered after the 30 day period is up then they haven't complied with the regs and that would qualify for non-delivery - if I were you I would contact paypal on day 31 and make a claim.

JimmyTheWig

browneyedbazzi wrote: »

OP - The distance selling regs say that a distance sales contract must be fulfilled within 30 days

But do DSRs apply for custom made orders?

browneyedbazzi

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

But do DSRs apply for custom made orders?

Yes, they do - other than the regulation regarding the right to cancel which contracts for bespoke goods are excepted from.