Stolen phone- do we have to pay?

devils_spawn

Ignore the majority of the advice on this thread, although many people are pointing out 'matter of fact' information, it is not necessarily going to be such an issue.


You don't mention which network it is with, but the first thing to do is to contact the network and explain your situation to them. Also get itemised bills for the last 6 months, using a SAR if necessary. Although many say that the onus is on the user, there is also a responsibility on the networks to ensure they identify any unusual behaviour and block it quicker than the appear to have done here.


If you can show that the behaviour changed significantly then you have good cause to raise a complaint. Do this in writing, you could seek advice from CAB on how exactly this should be worded. You should also get a copy of the networks complaint procedure and make sure you follow that exactly - send mail by recorded post and keep copies of everything you send and receive.


If, after the complaint procedure has been exhausted, you do not have a large reduction in the bill then it is time to write for the attention of the CEO. I know the mobile market very well having been a senior exec in many firms, the CEO's all have a specialist team to deal with complaints that are escalated. They want to ensure that they suffer no reputational damage - this is the bit that counts - if you can clearly show they have not been quick to identify erratic behaviour then they will reduce the bill significantly or if you are very lucky, they may write it off.


Good luck!

NFH

It is not the theft of the phone that is the issue here, but the theft of the SIM card, which appears to have been unprotected by a PIN code.

It is highly irresponsible of UK networks to issue SIM cards with the PIN code disabled. In many other countries, the PIN is enabled when the SIM card is issued. Therefore I think that UK networks should bear the losses on stolen SIM cards that they originally issued with the PIN disabled by default.

LondonGal

I'm always saddened when I see the premise of guilty until proven innocent as opposed to the correct method of being innocent till proven guilty. As for not being able to do anything about this bill, that is rubbish I'm afraid. Of course we should advise for the future, but we should also try to help for the present.

I can assure you 100% I know for a fact large bills such as this can be written off entirely. I have yet to meet a mobile provider who, when the CEO is contacted, asks you to follow normal procedure first. My experience is that they always either take the issue on in the Exec's office, or assign it to a relevant senior member of staff to deal with.

There is plenty which can be done, and we can only offer our own suggestions. I'm pleased to see some more positive ones here now, and hope it's not too late for the OP to read them.

roddydogs

Just a query, how do you PIN a SIM card, (Not the phone itself)

NFH

roddydogs wrote: »

Just a query, how do you PIN a SIM card, (Not the phone itself)

It has been the same way for over 20 years - using a menu in the phone. For example, in the iPhone, go to Settings->Phone->SIM PIN.

In other countries, this is one of the first things consumers do when they start using a SIM card, because they don't want to use the default PIN given to the SIM card by their network. UK networks should act more responsibly and enable PINs by default.

Techhead_2

LondonGal wrote: »

I'm always saddened when I see the premise of guilty until proven innocent as opposed to the correct method of being innocent till proven guilty. As for not being able to do anything about this bill, that is rubbish I'm afraid. Of course we should advise for the future, but we should also try to help for the present.

I can assure you 100% I know for a fact large bills such as this can be written off entirely. I have yet to meet a mobile provider who, when the CEO is contacted, asks you to follow normal procedure first. My experience is that they always either take the issue on in the Exec's office, or assign it to a relevant senior member of staff to deal with.

There is plenty which can be done, and we can only offer our own suggestions. I'm pleased to see some more positive ones here now, and hope it's not too late for the OP to read them.

I'd say you've not seen the examples on this very forum of people being told to follow the normal complaints process.

Buzby

Bills can be written off or reduced by networks where there are mitigating circumstances, but in this case? The end user has shown a cavalier disregard for his brother in laws finances. Overlooking the fact he's old enough to have his own contract, he:

1) did not report the loss to enable the phone to be locked in good time
2) did not PIN lock the SIM to prevent unauthorised use
3) presumably did not PIN lock the handset

Networks used to take a relaxed view until they discover scammers were using their own phones then seeking refunds claiming their phones were stolen when they had not been.

Hoping the network feels guilty that they allowed the usage to 'slip through' is hardly a defence - those controls are there for the networks benefit, not the customer. The first 3 listed are what a user can do, and he singularly failed each one.

The debt remains his to repay, and the contract holder will have his credit file fried if the amount is not paid on time. I'd be more concerned about that than trying to weasel out of a contractural obligation.

mobilejunkie

roddydogs wrote: »

Just a query, how do you PIN a SIM card, (Not the phone itself)

Each network has a pre-set default sim pin. It's usually 0000 or 1234 or somthing similar. You need to phone the network as soon as you get the sim to check if you don't know it for that network (though half the people you ask won't understand what you're asking and will want to know what handset you have and so on - which is completely irrelevant to this pin and an indictment of their training!).

I believe that the following are the default codes for these networks:-

Orange 1111

O2 0000

T-Mobile 1210

Talk Mobile 0000

Vodafone 0000

You have to enter the existing (default) code before setting a new one; enter the wrong existing code 3 times and the sim will lock. You then need to contact the network for the PUK code to unlock it (something they do know about, often trying to give you that instead of the sim pin). Similarly, you should set a lock on the phone which operates separately. Then if the phone is stolen (and has been switched off) neither it nor the sim will work (in a different phone either).

These are the first things I do with a new contract (unless I'm selling the phone, as I usually do nowadays).

roddydogs

Thanks, ive only ever used PAYG & never entered a pin to use it, didnt even realise you could do this. Does this mean if you enable it & the phone you have to enter 2 pins?

gjchester

roddydogs wrote: »

Thanks, ive only ever used PAYG & never entered a pin to use it, didnt even realise you could do this. Does this mean if you enable it & the phone you have to enter 2 pins?

It depends on the phone. Usually if the phone PIN and the SIM on are they same you only enter it once. Its possible to have a different phone and SIM pin so you have to enter both to be use the phone..


The two PINS serve different uses.


The phone pin means you need to put in a code to power up or unlock the phone and use it (and may be activated automatically, or by manually locking the phone.) It stops someone picking up a phone any using it. However someone could just put the sim in another phone so that where that's where a SIM lock comes in


A Sim PIN locks the SIM so that the code has to be entered at power up. This stops someone taking the SIM from a PIN locked phone and moving it to another phone to use.




You really need both enabled to be sure you cannot have bills run up in your name if your phone gets lost, although you said you were PAYG which is different in that it can only use available credit before the service becomes unusable without topping up.