PCN from VCS due to parking on Wickes car park - do i have a chance?

jhs2zz

Hi all

I think I should first start by a big thank you to the board for providing such comprehensive information about dealing with PCN from PPC. Although it has not completely solved my problem, it DOES stop me from being scared to pay up in the first place and ease my worries.

I have read the newbies and the sticky threads plus some other threads discussing similar cases. Must admit I have not finished reading them all but I start to feel that I have a weaker case, so I would like to post and ask all the experts for some direct suggestions.

MY CASE:

The driver took my car the other day and parked at one of the Wickes car park (England) then went to get some cash from nearby banks. He stopped by some shops on the way back and returned to the car after about an hour and found there was a PCN sticked to the windscreen (issued about 20 minutes after he left the car). The PPC is Vehicle Control Services Ltd.

It has been noticed that there were signs around the car park saying that it is "customer parking whilst on the premises, a maximum stay of two hours". However, the car was parked for only 1 hour max.


In this case he does not have receipts as proof of customer for Wickes. Nevertheless, I want to appeal based on the following arguments:

• The demanded 100 pounds (60 discounted if paid within 14 days) is not a true estimate of loss incurred to the car park owner, it is an unfair payment required
• I disagree there is any loss cost to the car park owner at the particular hours of this incident, as the car park was even not 50% full. The driver did take photos as evidence

So my question is, do you think I still stand a chance and is it worth trying to appeal, or should I just pay up?

Thank you in advance!

Redx

appeal when the ntk comes , not a gpeol will win as you are correct , the punishment doesnt fit the "crime"

ColliesCarer

I would advise you edit your post - you are giving too much information. The PPC's do monitor these boards.
Edit out times and dates and rephrase to third person.
Almost everything from My case downwards needs to be changed

jhs2zz

Thanks Redx and Collies, I have edited my post accordingly and will do more research.

I have another question: should I complain to the shop manager while waiting for NTK, and is there a template I can re-use?

Redx

I would say no , seeing as the driver didnt use the shop so have no receipts

the landowner approach tends to work when patronage of the facilities can be proved , like receipts or bank statements , otherwise its really classed as "trespassing" as far as any landowner is concerned , and wickes may not even own the land !

stick to the tried and tested appeal procedure and tell the driver to learn a lesson from this in future , to read contractual signs or rules when parking , be it a supermarket , MSA or wickes

ColliesCarer

Wait for the NtK as Redx has advised

See the template 1st appeal letter in NEWBIES thread post #1 for the main three grounds that apply in almost every circumstance - including yours. Send that off once the NtK has arrived.

Umkomaas

@OP - have a read of this and let us know if there are any similarities to your situation!

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=16231)

jhs2zz

Umkomaas wrote: »

@OP - have a read of this and let us know if there are any similarities to your situation!

Thanks for pointing this out. I read the case, and the key similarity is that in both cases the driver parked at Wickes then left, then returned within the 2 hour max limit only to discover a PCN has been issued. It is encouraging to see that the defendant won the case in the end. But there are also key different points:

• The defendant returned to shop at Wickes and bought something
• One weak point by VCS was that the defendant left the premises but there was no clear definition of the boundaries because there was also another shop seemingly sharing the car park. In my case, it appears to be just Wickes' car park.
• The case seems to be dismissed on the key point that the contract between VCS and Wickes does not clearly state "an assignment to permit VCS to sue individuals who have trespassed on the land belonging to a customer (Wickes)". (Quoting the Judge's original question "where is your right to issue proceedings in your own name for a breach of contract or a trespass upon land which is not owned by you or, indeed, as I can see here, assigned to your specific control?" --- I am not sure that, if VCS has revised their contract terms with Wickes to close this loophole.

Although I also notice that no GPEOL is mentioned in the case, the last point listed above seems to be the foundation of dismissing the case, unless I misunderstood it?

Coupon-mad

Well your case will be a simple matter of awaiting the NTK, sending the template first appeal, and then winning at POPLA. There will be no court. This is easy and EVERYONE wins. We haven't lost a POPLA appeal for over a year (except one which is in the Lead Adjudicator's in-tray as a formal complaint/mistake by the Assessor!).

jhs2zz

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Well your case will be a simple matter of awaiting the NTK, sending the template first appeal, and then winning at POPLA. There will be no court. This is easy and EVERYONE wins. We haven't lost a POPLA appeal for over a year (except one which is in the Lead Adjudicator's in-tray as a formal complaint/mistake by the Assessor!).

Thank you for the re-assurance! I now feel least worried and will update you as it goes.

jhs2zz

POSITIVE UPDATE:

While although in this case the driver and passengers did not shop at Wickes, I thought it still worth trying to complain to Wickes first and so I did. Wickes responded promptly and today I met the shop manager, who took a copy of the ticket and re-assured us that he will get it cancelled. So I think this should bring it to an end. In the unlikely event that the driver/keeper is still held responsible for the ticket (e.g., receiving the NTK), I will update and follow it up.

I summarise my case as below and hopefully it can be useful to others in future

Basically my thought was that in any cases the retailers really do not benefit (or very little) from parking tickets, it is the private parking enforcement companies that profits and yes it is purely about money-making for them. Quite the contrary, the retailers COULD risk damage to their own reputation. So it should really be little or no interest of the retailers to enforce parking charges.

What I did then:
I as the registered keeper of the car, wrote a formal complaint email to Wickes customer service team, and my arguments were mainly (1) even the driver and passengers did not shop in this case, they used to be customers and are still potential customers. However they are very annoyed in this case; (2) no GEPOL, VCS was purely profit-driven and what they do shows little consideration of Wickes' customers' feelings, and are potentially damaging to Wickes' reputation. In fact, there's arguably zero cost,as the car park was so empty that you could even count the number cars by your two hands...

What happened then:
On the day I sent the email and received a response within hours. The case was passed to the local shop manager who phoned me later in the day to apologise and said to cancel it. The next day I visited the shop, met the manager, who took a copy of the ticket and re-assured us that he will cancel the ticket and 'not to worry about it'.

Lessons learnt
- it is probably always worth trying to talk to the shop about it in the first place, whatever your case is. As said before retailers have little interest in these PCNs, they care MOST about their customers and THEIR business not the parking enforce companies. In the worst case, you just have to go through the formal appeal process
- in future if for any reason you do have to stay over the max stay or leave the premises for a while, maybe the best to do is to speak to the shop staff about it first and if they said ok so later they couldn't argue with it. Because again, the retailers couldnt care less about the parking enforce companies.

I also sent a follow-up email to Wickes to thank their prompt reaction. I think they deserve the credits.

And once again THANK YOU to the board, to everyone who contributed to the immense knowledge and help via posts and pms!!!